Realist

Devonta Freeman told ESPN's Josina Anderson that he wants "elite" running back money on a contract extension

303 posts in this topic

50 minutes ago, THEHEADCOACH said:

604 snaps to 353 snaps is not RBBC. Freeman is our primary back. They use Teco as a weapon, to keep free rested, and trying to cut down on his wear. 600-700 is about average for most of today's primary backs. Few go over, like free last year, but most are way under 600. Not many go over 700, maybe 3 or 4 a year, usually their teams are trying to cut their wear down afterwards. Most teams see 800 snaps is terrible for a RB.  Even Turner in his prime was in this range. Turner Ran a little more, but not so much in the passing game. He also always had backs do the same for him. Doing that, isn't bad for Freeman, its smart on our part. Keep them fresh! Things falling off in 2015 was not because Freeman couldn't handle the snaps, but more about the team as a whole falling apart. The oline was struggling, we couldn't throw the ball consistently,freeman was our biggest threat , teams knew this, and was determined to stop him.  Anyone should see this if they ever watched those games after Freeman supposedly fell off. Im sure he wore down some, every back does, but it was more of a team problem.  Freeman will get paid, whether it's for us , or running all over us for someone else. He is a great back. His peers say he is elite and one of the best in the game. Their opinions matter more than a bunch of whiny, over reacting, misinformed, message board members. No one here has to pay him. He is great for our team, i think TD will get it done.

Coleman missed 3 games which skewes the numbers. It's more of a two headed monster than the numbers indicate. Which I'm completely fine with. I'd rather have a two headed monster with two fresher backs to roll with later in the game. 

And yeah Freeman did wear down significantly in 2015. He averaged like 3.2 yards a carry in his last 7 games. He looked sluggish to end off the season (Kyle Shannahan even alluded to it after the season). I don't care how bad your offense is, if your an elite back you should still produce. 3.2 ypc is horrible. Look at David Johnson this past season. He was in an arguably worse situation with an even more banged up oline throughout the season and there was zero drop off in his game. The guy constantly produced. That's what's a true elite back does.

Man even Jordan Howard playing in that pathetic Bears offense put up an extremely efficent year with no drop off in his play. So stop with the excuses. 

If there was no such thing as the cap then I'd have no issue throwing Freeman "elite" money. But since there is I don't think paying him that "elite" money is the best way we an allocate our money. If he's down with 2nd tier money then sign me up. If not then move on. Just like the Pats do.  

 

 

Edited by Bobby.Digital
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15 minutes ago, Knight of God said:

Man, I don't care if he gets three carries...give him the money.

Once in a interview with Ryan, when he was asked about Freeman, Matt said when he is on the field , the whole attitude changes. His personality is infectious. He said Freeman brings alot outside of his carries. Kinda how i view the dude, i think he is good for the team in so many ways. Your comment reminded me of that. Kinda how i feel, I don't care really care about his carries, but i think he is a very important piece of our team. I thought his QB saying that, showed alot about the dude. I believe TD will get it done, they want him here.

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6 minutes ago, atljbo said:

Agreed .. Let this man disrespect teams

 

TD will pay him

 

 

Signing him now will let us water down the contract a little adding in this last year

People are addicted to FA's. We have every position stocked. Time to tie up loose ends and let this best disrespect folks.

 

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3 hours ago, Bobby.Digital said:

Coleman missed 3 games which skewes the numbers. It's more of a two headed monster than the numbers indicate. Which I'm completely fine with. I'd rather have a two headed monster with two fresher backs to roll with later in the game. 

And yeah Freeman did wear down significantly in 2015. He averaged like 3.2 yards a carry in his last 7 games. He looked sluggish to end off the season (Kyle Shannahan even alluded to it after the season). I don't care how bad your offense is, if your an elite back you should still produce. 3.2 ypc is horrible. Look at David Johnson this past season. He was in an arguably worse situation with an even more banged up oline throughout the season and there was zero drop off in his game. The guy constantly produced. That's what's a true elite back does.

Man even Jordan Howard playing in that pathetic Bears offense put up an extremely efficent year with no drop off in his play. So stop with the excuses. 

If there was no such thing as the cap then I'd have no issue throwing Freeman "elite" money. But since there is I don't think paying him that "elite" money is the best way we an allocate our money. If he's down with 2nd tier money then sign me up. If not then move on. Just like the Pats do. 

I'm just wondering, but do you realize 2015 was two years ago?

Also, I love how some people love to look at stats in a vacuum and not pay attention to any outside variables. For example, it's quite curious how Freeman's decline coincides with the same time that defenses figured out all they had to do to Atlanta was send a double A-gap blitz on every play, or at least threat it, and our terrible Center situation didn't allow us to do anything about it. Kinda curious how that is also the same time Matt Ryan's season went in the toilet after that. The signing of Alex Mack was hailed as the big difference in the 2015 season and the 2016 season; but sure, when it suits our narrative lets choose to ignore what the actually means for the other players that were here in 2015 and how they suffered from it.

Why try looking at the bigger picture when we can just sit back and throw rocks at one of the best players on the team instead...

And I'm going to say this just once: I hope you don't really believe this nonsense you're spewing about elite RB's being able to produce no matter how bad their supporting cast is? And if you think David Johnson's or Jordan Howard's situations were worse than Freeman's in 2015, then there really isn't much anyone can say to you.

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5 hours ago, Bobby.Digital said:

Coleman missed 3 games which skewes the numbers. It's more of a two headed monster than the numbers indicate. Which I'm completely fine with. I'd rather have a two headed monster with two fresher backs to roll with later in the game. 

And yeah Freeman did wear down significantly in 2015. He averaged like 3.2 yards a carry in his last 7 games. He looked sluggish to end off the season (Kyle Shannahan even alluded to it after the season). I don't care how bad your offense is, if your an elite back you should still produce. 3.2 ypc is horrible. Look at David Johnson this past season. He was in an arguably worse situation with an even more banged up oline throughout the season and there was zero drop off in his game. The guy constantly produced. That's what's a true elite back does.

Man even Jordan Howard playing in that pathetic Bears offense put up an extremely efficent year with no drop off in his play. So stop with the excuses. 

If there was no such thing as the cap then I'd have no issue throwing Freeman "elite" money. But since there is I don't think paying him that "elite" money is the best way we an allocate our money. If he's down with 2nd tier money then sign me up. If not then move on. Just like the Pats do.  

 

 

We arent the Pats. They do things differently. We are more like Seattle than any team

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16 hours ago, takeitdown said:

I think he'll get paid, and he had a great last year.  But he's a RB who has averaged over 4 ypc one year out of three.

It always seems crazy shouting you're the best when you've done it only once.

^This

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8 hours ago, Bobby.Digital said:

Coleman missed 3 games which skewes the numbers. It's more of a two headed monster than the numbers indicate. Which I'm completely fine with. I'd rather have a two headed monster with two fresher backs to roll with later in the game. 

And yeah Freeman did wear down significantly in 2015. He averaged like 3.2 yards a carry in his last 7 games. He looked sluggish to end off the season (Kyle Shannahan even alluded to it after the season). I don't care how bad your offense is, if your an elite back you should still produce. 3.2 ypc is horrible. Look at David Johnson this past season. He was in an arguably worse situation with an even more banged up oline throughout the season and there was zero drop off in his game. The guy constantly produced. That's what's a true elite back does.

Man even Jordan Howard playing in that pathetic Bears offense put up an extremely efficent year with no drop off in his play. So stop with the excuses. 

If there was no such thing as the cap then I'd have no issue throwing Freeman "elite" money. But since there is I don't think paying him that "elite" money is the best way we an allocate our money. If he's down with 2nd tier money then sign me up. If not then move on. Just like the Pats do.  

 

 

The bigger problem 2nd half of 2015 season was defenses figured out our passing game, and Matt did not have a good enough grasp of WCO to adjust. Plus we just didn't have the horses at WR. So teams stacked up to stop the run first, that plus all our problems at C as well. 

Did frreeman wear down as season progressed? Yes. Did he have the same gaps to run through he had earlier in season? Nope.

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2 hours ago, youngbloodz said:

We arent the Pats. They do things differently. We are more like Seattle than any team

Compare the success of those two teams.  If what the Pats have done for years leads to championships, count me in.  Especially when Seattle has one title.  Not being wed to their players has worked out well for NE, plus it probably keeps their squad hungry to perform instead of working to put up big numbers for one season, and then claiming you deserve elite money, so you can get a big payday.

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Like Trufant, Freeman is a guy that the Falcons covet. It's not only his excellence on the field it's what he brings to the city off the field as well. You don't draft and you don't bring up people like Freeman only to let their talents go when the contract comes up. You build and mold your team around these anchors. That's how you get a dynasty.

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9 hours ago, THEHEADCOACH said:

604 snaps to 353 snaps is not RBBC. Freeman is our primary back. They use Teco as a weapon, to keep free rested, and trying to cut down on his wear. 600-700 is about average for most of today's primary backs. Few go over, like free last year, but most are way under 600. Not many go over 700, maybe 3 or 4 a year, usually their teams are trying to cut their wear down afterwards. Most teams see 800 snaps is terrible for a RB.  Even Turner in his prime was in this range. Turner Ran a little more, but not so much in the passing game. He also always had backs do the same for him. Doing that, isn't bad for Freeman, its smart on our part. Keep them fresh! Things falling off in 2015 was not because Freeman couldn't handle the snaps, but more about the team as a whole falling apart. The oline was struggling, we couldn't throw the ball consistently,freeman was our biggest threat , teams knew this, and was determined to stop him.  Anyone should see this if they ever watched those games after Freeman supposedly fell off. Im sure he wore down some, every back does, but it was more of a team problem.  Freeman will get paid, whether it's for us , or running all over us for someone else. He is a great back. His peers say he is elite and one of the best in the game. Their opinions matter more than a bunch of whiny, over reacting, misinformed, message board members. No one here has to pay him. He is great for our team, i think TD will get it done.

Outstanding post.

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17 hours ago, Bobby.Digital said:

Imagine this board if we traded Jamie Collins and Chandler Jones for draft picks. 

"We CAN'T trade him!  He made some BIG PLAYS! PAY THE MAN!" 

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16 hours ago, takeitdown said:

I think he'll get paid, and he had a great last year.  But he's a RB who has averaged over 4 ypc one year out of three.

It always seems crazy shouting you're the best when you've done it only once.

This is extremely misleading and ignoring a LOT of his impact.  For one, you can't only focus on his ypc.  That doesn't tell the entire story.  So let's be real about it.

  1. He had 11 TD's in consecutive seasons, making him the ONLY RB in the ENTIRE LEAGUE that had 10+ TD's in consecutive seasons.  
  2. He led the league in rushing TD's in 2015 and was 6th last season.  
  3. He is the ONLY RB in the ENTIRE LEAGUE that ran for 1000+ yards the past 2 seasons.  You read that correctly.  With all the man love going on for all of the other RB's out there, NONE of them had 1k yards the past 2 seasons.  Period.
  4. He also had 127 receptions for 1,040 yards receiving over the past 2 seasons.  So while we can talk about his rushing stats being tops amongst RB's, we are ignoring a big part of his game.  He is a dual-threat out of the backfield.
  5. For all this talk about him not being an every down back and others knocking him for this and that, he had 338 touches in 2015 when Coleman got injured.  That is rushing and receiving.  For comparisons sake, nobody would ever claim Ezekiel Elliott is not an every down back, as he was Dallas' workhorse this season.  He had a total of 354 touches in 2016, 1 more per game than Freeman's 2015 total.

I could go on about how Freeman's receiving total was the 3rd and 5th most by any RB in the league for 2015 and 2016 respectively.  Or where he ranks after combining rushing/receiving stats amongst RB's.  But I think this is enough to squash anybody really trying to argue against him being considered an elite back.  He is the ONLY RB that has put up 1k yards and 10+ TD's rushing in consecutive seasons, and he did it while being one of the best receiving RB's in the league.  This isn't debatable.  These are facts.

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I think this forum needs to constitute what elite is. Freeman is elite! Look at @Pzummo post above me! Keep in mind that he did all that while sharing the load this season and last season a little bit. This dude is only going to get better. The problem is that you guys have a different meaning of elite. To me based on the stats above and his production this man is elite. Not to mention that he is going to bring it every time he touches the football! I guess y'all want to go YEARS again with someone tip toeing out the backfield SMH!

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19 hours ago, youngbloodz said:

Falcons will pay him $7-$8 mil a year. Nothing to discuss honestly

Looks like a bargain to me considering the production. Better get this deal done sooner than later before David Johnson hits the market, and you figure he'll get $10 million at least.

Edited by JerseyNo12
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Another freaking awesome pick for the Atlanta Falcons!!  With the 103rd pick in the 4th round of the 2011 nfl draft...

The Atlanta Falcons select...

Devonta Freeman!!!  You cannot get much more value than this stud in the 4th round man!  He's earned it!!

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap2000000349279/Falcons-select-Devonta-Freeman-with-No-103-pick

 

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I hadn't seen this article posted by anyone.  I might have missed it, but it deserves mentioning.  2014 NFL draft re-do, Freeman taken with the 5th overall pick.  No other player taken after the 3rd round made this 1st round re-do list.  And there's not much of an argument for putting Freeman any further down this list.  

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000802053/article/2014-nfl-draft-doover-eight-receivers-selected-in-first-round

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2 hours ago, Stray Dog THA GAWD said:

Compare the success of those two teams.  If what the Pats have done for years leads to championships, count me in.  Especially when Seattle has one title.  Not being wed to their players has worked out well for NE, plus it probably keeps their squad hungry to perform instead of working to put up big numbers for one season, and then claiming you deserve elite money, so you can get a big payday.

Its not as simple as following the Pats model.  They are the only ones that follow that model so successfully.  Truthfully, I don't know how they do it.  If it was a simple as just doing what they do and not overly committing to their players, wouldn't the Browns be relevant by now?  They have certainly let enough of their players walk that have found success on other teams.

Edited by Clark

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20 hours ago, Realist said:

Source

$7-8M/year is my guess. 

Ultimately, I'm not sure if the Falcons pay him that much. I personally feel like if we don't get him signed before the season he is going to be gone by the start of the 2018 season.

A few potential landing spots (aka places that would prob pay him $8m+/season):

Browns: Will have the cap space

49ers: That Shanny connection

Colts: Would be a nice compliment to Luck

Bucs: Could reunite with Winston. They'll be able to cut Doug and free up $7m next offseason. Worst case probably.

Saints: Maybe?

Freeman also said he, his agent and the team were on the same page so there's nothing to see here. They'll take care of Free.

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8 hours ago, RandomFan said:

I'm just wondering, but do you realize 2015 was two years ago?

Also, I love how some people love to look at stats in a vacuum and not pay attention to any outside variables. For example, it's quite curious how Freeman's decline coincides with the same time that defenses figured out all they had to do to Atlanta was send a double A-gap blitz on every play, or at least threat it, and our terrible Center situation didn't allow us to do anything about it. Kinda curious how that is also the same time Matt Ryan's season went in the toilet after that. The signing of Alex Mack was hailed as the big difference in the 2015 season and the 2016 season; but sure, when it suits our narrative lets choose to ignore what the actually means for the other players that were here in 2015 and how they suffered from it.

Why try looking at the bigger picture when we can just sit back and throw rocks at one of the best players on the team instead...

And I'm going to say this just once: I hope you don't really believe this nonsense you're spewing about elite RB's being able to produce no matter how bad their supporting cast is? And if you think David Johnson's or Jordan Howard's situations were worse than Freeman's in 2015, then there really isn't much anyone can say to you.

The whole basis of pointing out the 2015 is to show that Freemans only season as a bell cow he wore down significantly. He looked sluggish and less explosive as the season wore on. Kyle Shannahan alluded to it as well. So why would should we pay elite money to a RB who hasn't shown can handle the load, isn't elite (still very good), and plays in a two headed committee? Especially when RBs are one of the more easier positions to replace. It just doesn't make sense to me. 

Now sure there are definitely other factors that contributed to his decline in 2015 but it doesn't change the fact that Freeman woredown significantly.  I can't remember the last time a supposed elite back had that type of drop off in his play. Other backs have had to deal with injuries and terrible play from there supporting cast as well. Free isn't the only one. Which I'd exactly why I brought up David Johnson and Jordan Howard. 

Ariozna lost both there starting guard Evan Mathis and LT Jared Veldheer for the season all before week 9. They started 3 different players at LT and 5 different players at RG. Injuries at WR and big decline in play from Carson Palmer and Michael Floyd. But guess what? That dint hold David Johnson back from still producing. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-offensive-lines-this-season/

As for Jordan Howard his line was actually ok (PFF had them at about middle of the pack). However he had to deal with a complete clownshow at QB (Cutler, Hoyer and Barkley), a suspension to Alshon who missed a quarter of the season and a season ending injury to Kevin White in week 4. 

So yeah I definitely think DJ had tougher circumstances to overcome and Howard was about equal. If you think otherwise then there isn't really much I can say. 

As for elite backs being able to produce in any circumstance. I wouldn't say any circumstance. For example I don't see anyone doing well behind that Seattle oline last season. But outside of a league worst oline like Seattle or Minnesota an elite back should be able to still produce. DJ showed it last season and AP showed it in 2015.  And don't even try to argue our oline in 2015 was leauge worse. 

Edited by Bobby.Digital

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5 hours ago, youngbloodz said:

We arent the Pats. They do things differently. We are more like Seattle than any team

I'd say we're in the middle of those two teams. Seattle is a little more open to taking players with character concerns (Frank Clark and Malik McDowell). The Pats are more cut throat when it comes to their roster management. 

Something we can learn from Seattle is just how fast your team can go from cloud nine to trouble. Seattle looked like a potential dynasty then a few bad trades (Graham and Harvin) and questionable cap/roster management (they decided to cheap out on the oline and lost a lot of depth) really bite them. 

The Pats are constantly reloading picks (outside of this season), letting players walk which results in cap flexibility and recouping compensation picks. They don't get attached to players and they rarely spend big money on easy to fill positions like RB.

The Pats way of doing things just makes way more sense to me. It sets you up for long term success. 

Edited by Bobby.Digital
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2 hours ago, Stray Dog THA GAWD said:

Compare the success of those two teams.  If what the Pats have done for years leads to championships, count me in.  Especially when Seattle has one title.  Not being wed to their players has worked out well for NE, plus it probably keeps their squad hungry to perform instead of working to put up big numbers for one season, and then claiming you deserve elite money, so you can get a big payday.

Just because the media applauds every move they make does not mean they don't reward their core contributors.  

Gronk hasn't played all 16 games since 2011.  He was given a 6 year $54m contract.  Do you remember Aaron Hernandez?  They paid him.  Devin McCourty has a 5 year $47.5m contract.  Brady at $20.5m per year.  Dont'a Hightower 4 years at $35.5m.  Marcus Cannon for 5 years at $32.4m.  Stephon Gilmore for 5 years at $65m.  Nate Solder for 2 years at $20m.  Dwayne Allen for 4 years at $29.4m.  Their kicker is signed for 4 years at $17.2m, over $4m on their kicker.  

We have 9 guys with 6+ million per year contracts.  They Pats have 8.  And that's after we just re-signed a bunch of our guys, with Poe being a 1 year signing.  We both have 3 with 10+ mil contracts.  The Pats don't magically stay competitive without resigning their biggest playmakers.  They are typically smart about who they resign, though they do screw up as well (see Aaron Hernandez).  

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