JayOzOne

Quinn and the Calculated Odds: Will He Change?

40 posts in this topic

A lot of people blame LI on our hubris to pass late in the game when we were in field goal position while holding a seven point lead. We all remember losing to the Chargers at home on a similarly assertive call that didn't go our way. 

Personally, I love the mindset if not the results. I hated the call on fourth down against San Diego but had our guys done their jobs on the field, both plays would have succeeded. After years of Smitty playing cautiously not to lose, Quinn's belief in his squad and willingness to put that faith into action on game day is part of why I love him as our coach.

I'm sure he will adapt; experience is a **** of a teacher. But I hope we stay aggressive in our decision making but run better plays while doing so. Looking back at LI, I have no problem with passing when we had momentum. And I'm done with playing "what if". You win some and lose others. C'est la vie

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You play aggressive until it gets to the point that you have a win essentially locked up considering clock and score.

If you believe that, you only have trouble with a handful of calls last year (unfortunately a few in the SB).

 

 

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49 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

A lot of people blame LI on our hubris to pass late in the game when we were in field goal position while holding a seven point lead. We all remember losing to the Chargers at home on a similarly assertive call that didn't go our way. 

Personally, I love the mindset if not the results. I hated the call on fourth down against San Diego but had our guys done their jobs on the field, both plays would have succeeded. After years of Smitty playing cautiously not to lose, Quinn's belief in his squad and willingness to put that faith into action on game day is part of why I love him as our coach.

I'm sure he will adapt; experience is a **** of a teacher. But I hope we stay aggressive in our decision making but run better plays while doing so. Looking back at LI, I have no problem with passing when we had momentum. And I'm done with playing "what if". You win some and lose others. C'est la vie

I agree in general but disagree with the SB example. There are some times when the odds are so much in your favor that moving away from what you've been doing all season becomes a good idea. After Julio made that catch was such a situation. I dont aggressively fault DQ for doing what he was doing but it definitely was not optimum strategy. 

I think he will adapt as well. And I agree with the idea that failure educates. I just hope we are fortunate enough to be in that position again. 

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Well, it's already been said several times, but I understand the desire to keep riding the horse you rode in on, but when that horse has a couple of broken legs and a torn-up knee, you might want to re-think the strategy.  I have no problem with the play call that led to a sack and fumble that let New England get to 28-20, that was a fine play that could have worked if everyone did their job, but as DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said, after the Julio completion you have to play the odds a little smarter than they did.  This is the Super Bowl, and there are only a few minutes left, and you are ahead and can put the game out of reach; you don't worry about style points - especially with the O-line busted up.

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1 minute ago, conalthomas said:

Well, it's already been said several times, but I understand the desire to keep riding the horse you rode in on, but when that horse has a couple of broken legs and a torn-up knee, you might want to re-think the strategy.  I have no problem with the play call that led to a sack and fumble that let New England get to 28-20, that was a fine play that could have worked if everyone did their job, but as DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said, after the Julio completion you have to play the odds a little smarter than they did.  This is the Super Bowl, and there are only a few minutes left, and you are ahead and can put the game out of reach; you don't worry about style points - especially with the O-line busted up.

I actually agree. My concern is that if we start playing according to the "Coaching For Dummies" template and change the mindset of the coach, it will result in a team that is less aggressive and prone to teams coming back late in games. If I was a player and a coach was willing to go for it in a pressure situation, I'd try just a little harder to avoid letting him down. But you're right, you still have to be smart. For the record, I'm cool with the pass in the big game but not cool with running off-guard against the Chargers.  

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In that situation, you have to run the ball. Football 101. 

You're at the patriots ~25 yard line. 4 minutes on the clock. Patriots have 3 timeouts to burn. Call 3 run plays, make them burn their time outs. Kick the field goal. Go up 11 points with around 3:30 seconds left to play.

Even if the patriots score a touchdown on the next possession, assume that they needed to burn at least 1:30 to 2 minutes on that possession. 1:30 seconds left to play, you get the ball back. 

Patriots then have no timeouts left to take. QB kneel to victory. 

What's incredible about how this all played out was that Quinn had been part of the Seattle team that decided to pass when they should have run the ball in the Super Bowl. What a coincidence that it was against the same team.

Until proven otherwise, Quinn's ability to manage situational football needs significant improvement. To me, it doesn't seem like he learned from Seattle's blunder. Will our recent heart break change things? To be honest, I don't know. I would love to say yes, but history isn't on that side of the argument. 

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1 minute ago, Lord Sarcomere said:

In that situation, you have to run the ball. Football 101. 

You're at the patriots ~25 yard line. 4 minutes on the clock. Patriots have 3 timeouts to burn. Call 3 run plays, make them burn their time outs. Kick the field goal. Go up 11 points with around 3:30 seconds left to play.

Even if the patriots score a touchdown on the next possession, assume that they needed to burn at least 1:30 to 2 minutes on that possession. 1:30 seconds left to play, you get the ball back. 

Patriots then have no timeouts left to take. QB kneel to victory. 

What's incredible about how this all played out was that Quinn had been part of the Seattle team that decided to pass when they should have run the ball in the Super Bowl. What a coincidence that it was against the same team.

Until proven otherwise, Quinn's ability to manage situational football needs significant improvement. To me, it doesn't seem like he learned from Seattle's blunder.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.

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14 minutes ago, shock said:

The problem was that Shanahan didn't take into account how beat up our O Line was that late in the game. 

That's exactly it. Rushing the snap, constant pass protection, center on one leg, our Top Tackle out of the game and Compton, who seemed like he was playing like a rookie in the biggest game of his career. 

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Run,run,Kick FG win.

2016 MVP QB ran off the field yelling run the **** ball !!! nuff said...

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As much as many will hate the fact that maybe that last chance to take the SB might have been a 'good thing', I think it can really be the one setback to actually put us over the top.  To Quinn and this organization, 'No lead is guaranteed!'. What we do from here on out is to keep our foot on the gas pedal on offense. Get every possible point that we can get.  Keep the clock running with a decent lead by running the ball. This past year's SB loss wasn't just about losing, it was losing to whom many have considered the absolute best.  As a result, I think this team goes out and plays their absolute best from this point on, even against a very subpar opponent.  Also, it means if we're getting the heII beat out of us, we can also make those huge comebacks knowing it can be done.  That loss also puts a huge chip on our shoulders to go right back out and get the job done.  I actually believe we also go 14-2 as a result this year. 

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Truth me told, I would've taken Mack out of the game and put Garland in. He was struggling badly in the second half. 

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4 hours ago, Lord Sarcomere said:

In that situation, you have to run the ball. Football 101. 

You're at the patriots ~25 yard line. 4 minutes on the clock. Patriots have 3 timeouts to burn. Call 3 run plays, make them burn their time outs. Kick the field goal. Go up 11 points with around 3:30 seconds left to play.

Even if the patriots score a touchdown on the next possession, assume that they needed to burn at least 1:30 to 2 minutes on that possession. 1:30 seconds left to play, you get the ball back. 

Patriots then have no timeouts left to take. QB kneel to victory. 

What's incredible about how this all played out was that Quinn had been part of the Seattle team that decided to pass when they should have run the ball in the Super Bowl. What a coincidence that it was against the same team.

Until proven otherwise, Quinn's ability to manage situational football needs significant improvement. To me, it doesn't seem like he learned from Seattle's blunder. Will our recent heart break change things? To be honest, I don't know. I would love to say yes, but history isn't on that side of the argument. 

I know a lot of people want to blame Quinn but I think this mostly falls on Shanny.

Quinn trusted Shanny. He produced a record setting offense and an offense that got them to th SB ( in dominating fashion I might add).  Yes he knew what plays were coming over the headset but he trusted his guy enough not to intervene.

Lets also remember folks this was Quinn's 2ND year as a HC and he was a whisker away from a Lombardi. He'll learn and adapt.

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Posted (edited)

As great as of a poster you are, that's crazy to think we stay in attack mode. Freeman is getting chunks of yards every time he touches the ball.  We are up by a huge margin...This is a high school call on what to do and not to do. I don't care if he gained 1 yard per carry .  Clock runs out we kick the FG and win.

WTF are talking about?  And **** the Chargers game this is the Superbowl.

Edited by citsalp
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6 hours ago, Lord Sarcomere said:

In that situation, you have to run the ball. Football 101. 

You're at the patriots ~25 yard line. 4 minutes on the clock. Patriots have 3 timeouts to burn. Call 3 run plays, make them burn their time outs. Kick the field goal. Go up 11 points with around 3:30 seconds left to play.

Even if the patriots score a touchdown on the next possession, assume that they needed to burn at least 1:30 to 2 minutes on that possession. 1:30 seconds left to play, you get the ball back. 

Patriots then have no timeouts left to take. QB kneel to victory. 

What's incredible about how this all played out was that Quinn had been part of the Seattle team that decided to pass when they should have run the ball in the Super Bowl. What a coincidence that it was against the same team.

Until proven otherwise, Quinn's ability to manage situational football needs significant improvement. To me, it doesn't seem like he learned from Seattle's blunder. Will our recent heart break change things? To be honest, I don't know. I would love to say yes, but history isn't on that side of the argument. 

I agree with 99% of what your saying, and you said it well,,,The only issue is DQ wasn't the head coach for the Hawks...He was for the Falcons though.... Third time a charm is the way I see it.

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I'm sick of this SuperBowl being brought up

Like, legitimately sick. Every time it gets brought up I just cringe and lose whatever appetite I might have had.

Please, just let's leave this behind us. It's a ******* nightmare.

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2 hours ago, citsalp said:

As great as of a poster you are, that's crazy to think we stay in attack mode. Freeman is getting chunks of yards every time he touches the ball.  We are up by a huge margin...This is a high school call on what to do and not to do. I don't care if he gained 1 yard per carry .  Clock runs out we kick the FG and win.

WTF are talking about?  And **** the Chargers game this is the Superbowl.

Didn't Free get blown up for a two yard loss on first down? I'm sure the thought was to get at least a first down and trust the team to assert itself. That would have ended the game as well. Didn't happen. I wish we hadn't done it, but I appreciate the effort. I'm cool being in the minority. 

My point is not that it was smart (especially in hindsight) but I wonder if we will be less aggressive in general. Not discounting situational awareness, but I hope we continue to be an attacking team.

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14 hours ago, shock said:

The problem was that Shanahan didn't take into account how beat up our O Line was that late in the game. 

What if the decision to not run the ball was doing just that?  What if the injuries were exactly why he didn't run the ball?  I'm not implying I know one way or another.  It's just a thought. 

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Not going to revisit LI but I do think that DQ and team will continue to play the way they play.   I don't think it is about gambling or playing the odds for DQ.  I think it is more about doing what he thinks the team is most capable of in that situation. I think we will always be on the aggressive end of play calling just because that's kinda how we play all the time.   

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5 minutes ago, Monolith2001 said:

Not going to revisit LI but I do think that DQ and team will continue to play the way they play.   I don't think it is about gambling or playing the odds for DQ.  I think it is more about doing what he thinks the team is most capable of in that situation. I think we will always be on the aggressive end of play calling just because that's kinda how we play all the time.   

I agree about having an aggressive mentality...but I sincerely hope Quinn learned from it, because he ******* blew it. 

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7 hours ago, Falcan Moore said:

I'm sick of this SuperBowl being brought up

Like, legitimately sick. Every time it gets brought up I just cringe and lose whatever appetite I might have had.

Please, just let's leave this behind us. It's a ******* nightmare.

Maybe it's therapeutic; like aversion therapy.

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5 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I agree about having an aggressive mentality...but I sincerely hope Quinn learned from it, because he ******* blew it. 

The learning is that anything can fail.  Every play that we executed should have worked as they are plays we run all the time.  We didn't execute well and lost lots of yards. Had we run the ball, poor execution still could have had bad results and there would be second guessing of that.  On every play there will be winners and losers and we lost that series not to bad decisions but due to not executing our plays better than our opponents.defended.  

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