Sipifalcon

O.J. Howard visiting

81 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Well, we all know Cam needs all the help he can get....:)

seriously, your team is a RB away from being a playoff team again next year.

 

Fournette reminds me of a better version of Stephen Davis in his prime, and that was my comparison since December. He could be real productive and good for us if we transition to pure power.

McCaffrey makes our offense scary in how many looks we can line-up. Add in a power back later with Perine or Conner and having a run game of Cam, Stew, Perine, Young, and McCaffrey is insanity.

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11 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

Lol when I say draftniks, I'm talking about the ones who were either actual scouts, former scouts who don't work for mass media, or those that study prospects meticulously and bundle such study for a profit.

Makes no sense...So they think they know more than actual NFL scouts? Those guys are just part of the media to me, trying to be contrarians. Because howard is gonna be the first  TE off the board, and I betcha a $1 nearly if not every NFL team would pick him over every other TE in this deep class. 

 

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24 minutes ago, SamMills51 said:

Fournette reminds me of a better version of Stephen Davis in his prime, and that was my comparison since December. He could be real productive and good for us if we transition to pure power.

McCaffrey makes our offense scary in how many looks we can line-up. Add in a power back later with Perine or Conner and having a run game of Cam, Stew, Perine, Young, and McCaffrey is insanity.

I hope you get McCaffrey  too, **** you guys should trade up for him .

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

I just hope someone takes him before Bucs are on the clock.

Yes.  You'd danm well better hope that. :o

Edited by JOEinPHX
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Dude would be sick in our offense but it would cost to much to go up and get him. Now if he fell to around pick # 20 TD and DQ would be a fool to not try and trade up for him. The guy has Tony Gonzalez capability.

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2 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

Nothing on Howard's tape shows a special TE. He doesn't run many routes, and his catching is average with no YAC. Underutilized by a coach known for bringing out the best out of every player. 

Njoku and Hodges have shown more than him at this point on tape. Howard has to prove it's because of Bama's scheme, and not the coach hiding his deficiencies, hence why the Howard hype is all projection.

Lol go look at Bret hollomans breakdown of him on YouTube he was forced to run those bs routes that dude would be insane on this time I promise you that 

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Howard would be a monster in our offense. Like it would be ludacris how many weapons we have. With that being said, the chances we draft him are slim to none but nice to think about the potential offense featuring Ryan, Julio, Sanu, Gabriel, Free, TeCo, Hoop, and then Howard?! Insane 

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39 minutes ago, JOEinPHX said:

Yes.  You'd danm well better hope that. :o

If I was Bucs GM, I would take Howard or Njoku in 1st, Mixon in 2nd and then maybe a Center and a corner.

just surround Jameis with weapons.   Gotta upgrade Joe Hawley soon -he is terrible.

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25 minutes ago, HaRdH3ad said:

Lol go look at Bret hollomans breakdown of him on YouTube he was forced to run those bs routes that dude would be insane on this time I promise you that 

Saw that. The dude would make a good salesman. His explanation seemed great, but it does not point out the fact he's a weapon that should've been utilized, but not. If he were so rare in talent and amazing, why would said coach - known to bring the best out of every player - limit him? 

Because the rest of the offense is inept? That excuse lacks basis, as you see Fournette being the focal point of a talent depleted offense. If Howard is your supposed best offensive player, why limit him so much as he was?

If your offense as a whole isn't up to par, you scheme around your best player. Sure, could argue their QB was schemed around to allow him to run, but that doesn't excuse the fact Howard is theoretically their supposed "best weapon" who was never used the way he supposedly should've.

And that's the thing. If he wasn't used to his "fullest," and if he truly were a superstar, why did Alabama not scheme around him? Is he limited in some way to hide his deficiencies? Is there a weakness somewhere that's yet to be exploited of him? Is he limited in experience or route running to the point he's just forced on basic fundamental routes and concepts?

This is why he is a projection, not a sure talent. His athleticism and base seem good on paper, but he will be a project if he were to break the "glass ceiling" and achieve the stardom status many are propping him with. 

Njoku, Engram, and Hodges can be argued as the more NFL ready "TEs" as far as big play-making ability. Their talent is already proven in film. They can catch, run solid route concepts that Howard has never shown, and make plays on the ball that Howard hasn't. They only fall behind in blocking, and that's mainly due to frame. 

Njoku already has shown proper form when blocking, with Miami comfortable enough to even utilize him as a blocking TE on power plays in short yardage/goal line situations. He bulks up to his frame's potential, fits with the right team, and progress through his early stages, he'll be a solid blocker by the end of his rookie season and theoretically be a better player than Howard at that point due to Njoku's advantage in experience and ability in the passing game.

Howard has a lower span of adjusting to NFL blocking with his experience, but he'll have to prove and attempt to change his game to be a threat and show he's a better TE. He may be more complete in respect to his solid base going in the NFL, but he'll lag behind guys like Njoku due to his limited experience and ability in the passing game.

That's my argument and logical basis to why Howard is overrated in a deep TE draft class.

 

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

Makes no sense...So they think they know more than actual NFL scouts? Those guys are just part of the media to me, trying to be contrarians. Because howard is gonna be the first  TE off the board, and I betcha a $1 nearly if not all NFL team would pick him over every other TE in this deep class. 

 

Not arguing he won't be the #1 TE starting off. It's just you have to find a good spot to take him with consideration of value. I don't think he warrants a top 12 pick - which he likely will - so I'm against the argument of the purpose of the thread, which is for the Falcons to trade up to get him.

I don't think trading for a TE in this class provides any value with the depth of talent. He'll be the first one off, but no team should give up draft capital to do so. That's my opinion.

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

If I was Bucs GM, I would take Howard or Njoku in 1st, Mixon in 2nd and then maybe a Center and a corner.

just surround Jameis with weapons.   Gotta upgrade Joe Hawley soon -he is terrible.

They need a cover safety more than a corner.  And Marpet will enter camp as their #1 center with Sweezy taking over his guard spot.  They had Mixon in for a visit but the real wild card in their running back situation is Doug Martin.  If they feel good about bringing him back (and I think it will happen if he'll accept a restructured contract that protects the team) that frees up another draft spot.

PS - Joe isn't terrible.  You've just gotten too accustomed to watching Alex Mack.

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2 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

Saw that. The dude would make a good salesman. His explanation seemed great, but it does not point out the fact he's a weapon that should've been utilized, but not. If he were so rare in talent and amazing, why would said coach - known to bring the best out of every player - limit him? 

Because the rest of the offense is inept? That excuse lacks basis, as you see Fournette being the focal point of a talent depleted offense. If Howard is your supposed best offensive player, why limit him so much as he was?

If your offense as a whole isn't up to par, you scheme around your best player. Sure, could argue their QB was schemed around to allow him to run, but that doesn't excuse the fact Howard is theoretically their supposed "best weapon" who was never used the way he supposedly should've.

And that's the thing. If he wasn't used to his "fullest," and if he truly were a superstar, why did Alabama not scheme around him? Is he limited in some way to hide his deficiencies? Is there a weakness somewhere that's yet to be exploited of him? Is he limited in experience or route running to the point he's just forced on basic fundamental routes and concepts?

This is why he is a projection, not a sure talent. His athleticism and base seem good on paper, but he will be a project if he were to break the "glass ceiling" and achieve the stardom status many are propping him with. 

Njoku, Engram, and Hodges can be argued as the more NFL ready "TEs" as far as big play-making ability. Their talent is already proven in film. They can catch, run solid route concepts that Howard has never shown, and make plays on the ball that Howard hasn't. They only fall behind in blocking, and that's mainly due to frame. 

Njoku already has shown proper form when blocking, with Miami comfortable enough to even utilize him as a blocking TE on power plays in short yardage/goal line situations. He bulks up to his frame's potential, fits with the right team, and progress through his early stages, he'll be a solid blocker by the end of his rookie season and theoretically be a better player than Howard at that point due to Njoku's advantage in experience and ability in the passing game.

Howard has a lower span of adjusting to NFL blocking with his experience, but he'll have to prove and attempt to change his game to be a threat and show he's a better TE. He may be more complete in respect to his solid base going in the NFL, but he'll lag behind guys like Njoku due to his limited experience and ability in the passing game.

That's my argument and logical basis to why Howard is overrated in a deep TE draft class.

 

Saban doesn't coach the offense...besides telling the oc to run the ball more and don't do dumb stuff he's hands off.

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9 hours ago, SamMills51 said:

Not arguing he won't be the #1 TE starting off. It's just you have to find a good spot to take him with consideration of value. I don't think he warrants a top 12 pick - which he likely will - so I'm against the argument of the purpose of the thread, which is for the Falcons to trade up to get him.

I don't think trading for a TE in this class provides any value with the depth of talent. He'll be the first one off, but no team should give up draft capital to do so. That's my opinion.

I clearly agreed with that. Disagreed he would be a "bust" as you defined the term. 

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  Well, I made that post that said,, "A player you want but that we really don't need".. And mine was OJ Howard...Got a lot of hecklers.  I had not seen this at all.... But the only thing I can say is.. I'd rather have another top DE than a Great TE, I'd rather us get a top DE ,Not to mention any names, His initials are "Taco Charlton" !!!!!   :rolleyes:   He  would be a great pick,,  But the bottom line is,,, I'd like to have them both !! :munch:

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I seriously doubt we'd trade up for Howard.  He only impacted a handful of games in college.  If he was a transcendent player, I think Alabama would've utilized him more.  At this point some team is going to have to bet on his measurables instead of production, which sometimes pans out but often is where the biggest draft busts are made.  No way we would trade up to take that kind of risk.  If he falls to 31 then it would be a consideration.

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2 minutes ago, DogIsYourName said:

I seriously doubt we'd trade up for Howard.  He only impacted a handful of games in college.  If he was a transcendent player, I think Alabama would've utilized him more.  At this point some team is going to have to bet on his measurables instead of production, which sometimes pans out but often is where the biggest draft busts are made.  No way we would trade up to take that kind of risk.  If he falls to 31 then it would be a consideration.

Alabama didn't utilize Julio either and I think he turned out OK. 

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5 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Alabama didn't utilize Julio either and I think he turned out OK. 

They utilized Julio a lot more than OJ Howard.  You are correct that he didn't break NCAA records for TDs or anything like that, but he did a lot more in 3 years than Howard did in 4.  In 4 seasons, Howard's best year was his Junior season in which he accounted for 602 yards and 2 TDs, with the majority of that coming in one game against Clemson due to blown coverages.  Julio put up 1200+ yards and 9 TDs in his best season.

Edited by DogIsYourName

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On 4/14/2017 at 8:54 PM, SamMills51 said:

He's overrated. He has a high bust ratio because everyone is projecting him to be someone he's not. He's not going to be an all-star TE unless he proves it on the field.

Again, he shows mediocre stuff on the field. There's a reason his stats are low overall. I could show you Njoku, Hodges, or even Engram highlights which flash more than he has.

Fact of the matter is you're expecting a star player - especially with the weight of a TE - to be there in the top 12, and I don't see it with Howard. You won't find a fan of him in me.

Could he be worth a low first rounder? Maybe since at that point you're picking people of potential rather than proven product. Howard isn't a proven product that he'll justify a first round pick, and that's that.

I just hope 31 GMs(all but Falcons) think the same way you do!

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I listen to Coach Satan's press conferences and from what he said about Howard,  anyone with half a brain can surmise that the lack of utilizing Howard is one of the reasons Lame Kiffen is now an Owl. He totally threw him under the bus about the subject.  After NGC when he exploded Saban wanted him t o play a major part and Kitten had his own plan.

To say he isn't a great talent at TE is a little silly. Watch the tape if you haven't had the chance to watch him play for 4 years.

BTW, yes he is a good blocker. Hard to see on TV, easy when you go to games. 

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On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 8:45 PM, SamMills51 said:

Nothing on Howard's tape shows a special TE. He doesn't run many routes, and his catching is average with no YAC. Underutilized by a coach known for bringing out the best out of every player. 

Njoku and Hodges have shown more than him at this point on tape. Howard has to prove it's because of Bama's scheme, and not the coach hiding his deficiencies, hence why the Howard hype is all projection.

I like Carter a lot too.

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On 4/14/2017 at 4:08 PM, FalconAge said:

Easy guys. He's just coming for dinner with Julio.

Too late...can't wait for the panty bunching over the draft to be finished. 

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On 4/14/2017 at 9:23 PM, SamMills51 said:

Nothing special. I don't see it. You look at Njoku or Hodges highlight reels and they're even more spectacular.

Regardless, he lost playing snaps and has demonstrated that he can bullied like Jimmy Graham with more physical defenders. In addition, he's in a scheme that gets him wide open looks. Howard won't be in that scheme unless he gets really lucky.

Sounds like a bust in the making honestly if he's taken too high.

We could pick up Hodges in a late round pick, if we pick a TE at all.

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