King Jigsaw

Quick Mock With Trade

53 posts in this topic

  1. CLE - Myles Garrett, DE, Texas A&M - Consensus top player in this draft. Cleveland needs talent.
  2. SF - Solomon Thomas, DE, Stanford - Much better scheme fit than Allen now.
  3. CHI - Johnathan Allen, DE, Alabama - After paying Glennon, they need defensive fortification.
  4. JAX - Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU - Chris Ivory and TJ Yeldon aren't scaring anyone.
  5. TEN - Jamal Adams, S, LSU - Logan and Cyprien were a good start, Titans set on fixing secondary issues.
  6. NYJ - Marshon Lattimore, CB, Ohio State - Jets need major help at CB.
  7. LAC - Malik Hooker, S, Ohio State - Chargers won't let Hooker's injury stop them from taking the next Ed Reed.
  8. CAR - Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan - Peppers and Johnson? Panther's passrush needs some youth.
  9. CIN - Reuben Foster, LB, Alabama - Foster will really help the interior of their defense.
  10. BUF - Mike Williams, WR, Clemson - Sammy Watkins loved having Williams across from him at Clemson.
  11. NO - Derek Barnett, DE, Tennessee - New Orleans' defense.. well.. they haven't had one.
  12. CLE - Marlon Humphrey, CB, Alabama - Browns don't rush a QB pick, keep building defense up.
  13. ARI - Mitchell Trubisky, QB, North Carolina - Palmer has one year left in him, uses it to mentor the top QB of this class.
  14. PHI - Gareon Conley, CB, Ohio State - When was the last time Philly had good corners?
  15. IND - Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State - Indy needed this pick in the worst way. Time waits for no man, not even Frank Gore.
  16. BAL - Cam Robinson, OT, Alabama - Ozzie isn't afraid of 'troubled' players, needs a new tackle with the loss of Ricky Wagner.
  17. WAS - Zach Cunningham, LB, Vanderbilt - I could see this pick also being Peppers, but Cunningham is what they like.
  18. TEN - OJ Howard, TE, Alabama - This offense will be scary. Mariota, Murray, Henry, Walker, and Howard? That's really good.
  19. TB - Christian McCaffery, RB, Stanford - Doug Martin is done in Tampa, and Quizz shouldn't ever be a 1. 
  20. DEN - ???

And this is where the draft starts for Atlanta. Thomas Dimitroff and Scott Pioli have been very quiet up to this point, sitting on their hands and waiting for the right time to pounce. Once the last pick in the teens comes off the board, Denver's war room lights up like a Christmas tree and it's the NFC Champion Falcons calling to move up to their spot. With Ryan Ramczyk, Garrett Bolles, Forrest Lamp, John Ross, and Corey Davis still on the board, Denver likes their chances of still landing a player near the top of their board and jump down to pick 31.

**Trade** The Atlanta Falcons send picks 31, 95, and their 2018 2nd Rounder to Denver for the right to move up to pick 20.

  • Round 1, Pick 20 - Haason Reddick, LB, Temple
    • Height: 6'1" Weight: 237 lbs.
    • Reddick has never actually played LB before, but that's what he will be in the NFL. He eased some concerns about that transition by absolutely dominating the Senior Bowl this year. It was actually surprising to think that his performance there would be trumped, but he was even more impressive at the Combine. Reddick is both an athlete and a football player, and it came as a surprise to no one when it was reported that Dan Quinn is in love with him as a prospect.
  • Round 2, Pick 63 - Daeshon Hall, EDGE, Texas A&M
    • Height: 6'5" Weight: 265 lbs.
    • My favorite pick at 63 would be Budda Baker but I just can't get a proper feel for where he will be taken. I've seen him mocked a lot in the third round simply because so many teams won't use such an undersized safety. I don't think he'll last this long, however, so I'm going with Plan 1.B. Daeshon Hall is my favorite passrusher this class outside of his teammate, and I think his talents will be utilized to perfection by Dan Quinn and company. I don't know that Hall will be an automatic star, but this is the exact environment he needs to excel.
  • Round 4, Pick 136 - James Conner, RB, Pittsburgh
    • Height: 6'1" Weight: 233 lbs.
    • Devonta Freeman has scared a lot of folks with the way he's handled his contract situation, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Falcons were looking for another back even before that. Freeman and Coleman do a lot of things well and make a lot of nifty plays with their finesse. Conner is not of the same mold - there is no finesse to his game whatsoever. Dropping shoulders and delivering harder hits to would-be tacklers than they deliver to him is his game, and I love it. The TJ Duckett clone would have a specific role on this team and would be a great fit in the Brotherhood to boot. Bring him home.
  • Round 5, Pick 174 - Jessamen Dunker, OG, Tennessee State
    • Height: 6'4" Weight: 301 lbs.
    • Jessamen Dunker has been mention on this board a few times as the best zone blocking guard of the later rounds. I've widely seen him as a projected 6th round pick, but the Falcons need combined with their lack of 6th round pick makes him an excellent choice at this juncture. Dunker and Schweitzer sounds like more like a terrible law firm than a competition, but having them go at it throughout camp for the the RG spot sounds like the best plan for the Falcons right now. The loser becomes very good depth.
  • Round 7, Pick 249 - Pharoah Brown, TE, Oregon
    • Height: 6'6" Weight: 255 lbs.
    • Pharoah Brown once drew comparisons to Jimmy Graham with his athletic and receiving abilities, but injuries completely derailed his career. It's always a crapshoot knowing who's going to be left sitting around at the end of the draft but this is a very low-risk high-reward pick, which is what I like to see in the final frames. Worst case scenario, Brown just doesn't have it anymore and doesn't make the team. Best case scenario is he returns to form and combines with Hooper to be the best young TE combo in the league and our offense becomes that much more potent.

 

I feel like I'm shorting you guys with this one compared to the effort I usually put into these things, but I just wanted to throw this out there and see what you guys thought as a possible scenario. Two positions you probably didn't expect to see ignored were DT and FS, but the way the draft fell in this scenario just didn't play to our vision. Ricardo Allen is more than serviceable and it will take more to unseat him as our starter than people think. Replacing him is not a top priority this year, and upgrading him isn't that easy of a task. As far as DT goes we have a lot of bodies on the line. Between Jarrett, Poe, Upshaw, Shelby, Crawford and Hagemen I think we have enough bodies to rotate around that unless we have a guy that we see as a Grady-type steal we won't be too aggressive to land a guy this year.

Edited by King Jigsaw

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Very plausible trade idea. I love every pick, with the exception of James Connor.

Reddick would be fun to watch in this scheme and with the addition of Hall, this defensive would be a whole lot more dangerous. Pharaoh Brown, if he can stay healthy, will be one of those guys that GM's kick themselves over for passing him up.

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14 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

Very plausible trade idea. I love every pick, with the exception of James Connor.

Reddick would be fun to watch in this scheme and with the addition of Hall, this defensive would be a whole lot more dangerous. Pharaoh Brown, if he can stay healthy, will be one of those guys that GM's kick themselves over for passing him up.

Fair assessment. Why don't you like the James Conner pick, if I may ask? I feel like we've been trying out a few guys to be the number three pack the past couple of years and none of them have panned out. Connor adds a new element that the other guys don't. I'm not proposing him as Freeman's replacement but he would be a good short yardage/goal line guy and I'd like to run him in the 4th quarter when teams know we're running it so that Freeman and Coleman aren't taking that punishment.

Thanks for reading, bro. Look forward to your response.

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honestly, other than replacing Connor with Jamaal Williams, BYU RB; I've got nothing to add. I'd be stoked with that haul. And if the Falcons liked Connor, i'd be cool with that as well.

love the Reddick and Hall picks! Great adds.

I love me some FS--but, Reddick is a heckuva talent; so it'd be hard to argue with this haul.

The only thing in this draft that's so deep in DBs. I find it hard to believe that we won't add at least one

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4 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

honestly, other than replacing Connor with Jamaal Williams, BYU RB; I've got nothing to add. I'd be stoked with that haul. And if the Falcons liked Connor, i'd be cool with that as well.

love the Reddick and Hall picks! Great adds.

I love me some FS--but, Reddick is a heckuva talent; so it'd be hard to argue with this haul.

The only thing in this draft that's so deep in DBs. I find it hard to believe that we won't add at least one

Well, we didn't lose any DBs from last year to this year. Trufant, Alford, Collins, Allen, and Neal all return as starters. Ishmael, Poole, Goodwin, Wreh-Wilson, and Olatoye all return as depth. I'm sure we might bring in some more safety competition to battle King and Neasman and we'll always have some UDFA corners come in for camp. As a position group we're very well off though and I think the front seven rightfully deserves more attention.

As far as Williams is concerned, if you think he's there at the tail end of the fourth then I'll believe you but I'm not so sure. He's a good back in a good class. Judging by how the RB market has played out this offseason it seems a lot of teams are waiting for the draft to get their backs and there could be a serious run on them in the middle rounds.

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48 minutes ago, King Jigsaw said:

Fair assessment. Why don't you like the James Conner pick, if I may ask? I feel like we've been trying out a few guys to be the number three pack the past couple of years and none of them have panned out. Connor adds a new element that the other guys don't. I'm not proposing him as Freeman's replacement but he would be a good short yardage/goal line guy and I'd like to run him in the 4th quarter when teams know we're running it so that Freeman and Coleman aren't taking that punishment.

Thanks for reading, bro. Look forward to your response.

I thought Connor looked really stiff in the hips when I watched him. Not a lot of lateral agility, poor vision. Just doesn't look like a great fit in the ZBS to me. Looks like a poor man's Brandon Jacobs.

A big back that I do like is D'onta Foreman. I don't know if he falls to the 4th (I haven't really got a good gauge on where the RB's will land in this draft). 

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7 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

I thought Connor looked really stiff in the hips when I watched him. Not a lot of lateral agility, poor vision. Just doesn't look like a great fit in the ZBS to me. Looks like a poor man's Brandon Jacobs.

A big back that I do like is D'onta Foreman. I don't know if he falls to the 4th (I haven't really got a good gauge on where the RB's will land in this draft). 

I've seen him in the second the couple times the name caught my eye, but I haven't really payed too much attention to the backs this year either.

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 If that happened it would be great but honestly I think it will take more than just our 3rd to move that distance of picks. We would probably have to give up more than that. And I don't think Conner is a fit in our ZBS.

Similar trade...

https://www.google.com/amp/atlallday.com/2017/02/09/atlanta-falcons-trade-desmond-truffant/amp/?espv=1

 

Just my opinion 

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y'all do realize reddick is an off-ball LB in the NFL right? Like, he's clearly too small to play edge, even sam LB, he's going to be a 4-3 LB or a 3-4 ILB

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2 hours ago, Kayoh said:

y'all do realize reddick is an off-ball LB in the NFL right? Like, he's clearly too small to play edge, even sam LB, he's going to be a 4-3 LB or a 3-4 ILB

I think you'd play him at SAM in base, but I'd have him pinning his ears back on the edge in nickel. 

Who do you compare him to athletically? The closest comparison I have is Von Miller, and I'd use him exactly the same way the Broncos used Miller his rookie year.

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16 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

I think you'd play him at SAM in base, but I'd have him pinning his ears back on the edge in nickel. 

Who do you compare him to athletically? The closest comparison I have is Von Miller, and I'd use him exactly the same way the Broncos used Miller his rookie year.

Bobby Wagner. Tyus Bowser compares much better to Von. Check this out:

5efa19b51a25b085366ea064f6f9007c.png

also the role you just described (Sam in base, DE in nickel) is what Vic is supposed to be.

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13 minutes ago, Kayoh said:

Bobby Wagner. Tyus Bowser compares much better to Von. Check this out:

5efa19b51a25b085366ea064f6f9007c.png

also the role you just described (Sam in base, DE in nickel) is what Vic is supposed to be.

They're all close tbh. Playing style is much closer to Miller than Wagner. He consistently won on the edge with his speed and bend - 3rd most productive edge rusher from the left in FBS this year.

My assumption is Beasley would kick back to LEO full time, but that is a concern as both appear to favor rushing from the left. 

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Just now, Smiler11 said:

They're all close tbh. Playing style is much closer to Miller than Wagner. He consistently won on the edge with his speed and bend - 3rd most productive edge rusher from the left in FBS this year.

My assumption is Beasley would kick back to LEO full time, but that is a concern as both appear to favor rushing from the left. 

that's the exact concern. Rushing from the left - especially in college - is far easier, because the best OL on a college team is ALWAYS going to be their LT. Very, VERY few exceptions. College RTs are scrubs. We know that Taco Charlton isn't explosive, and he beats RTs on a pretty consistent basis, but I've never seen him beat a single LT, and this is in a power 5 conference. Reddick is simply too small to be an edge rusher in the NFL. I'm not even talking height, he literally lost weight between the senior bowl and combine, he's going to be an off-ball LB in the NFL, that's what he's preparing for.

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29 minutes ago, Kayoh said:

that's the exact concern. Rushing from the left - especially in college - is far easier, because the best OL on a college team is ALWAYS going to be their LT. Very, VERY few exceptions. College RTs are scrubs. We know that Taco Charlton isn't explosive, and he beats RTs on a pretty consistent basis, but I've never seen him beat a single LT, and this is in a power 5 conference. Reddick is simply too small to be an edge rusher in the NFL. I'm not even talking height, he literally lost weight between the senior bowl and combine, he's going to be an off-ball LB in the NFL, that's what he's preparing for.

Sorta agree. He can be in on edge packages. Chris Clemons was light, Schoffield was as well. in a different defense (but some similarities) Robert Mathis came off the edge; and he and Reddick aren't far off at all in comparisons.

The LEO or whatever you want to call it is as much about athleticism and speed and size isn't the barrier. Carrol is quoted as saying that. You could also see him play "off ball" as a WLB, then have packages on the edge. It really just depends on how DQ views him; he's a tremendous athlete.

I'm curious to watch him regardless the team he ends up on.

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1 minute ago, MSalmon said:

Sorta agree. He can be in on edge packages. Chris Clemons was light, Schoffield was as well. in a different defense (but some similarities) Robert Mathis came off the edge; and he and Reddick aren't far off at all in comparisons.

The LEO or whatever you want to call it is as much about athleticism and speed and size isn't the barrier. Carrol is quoted as saying that. You could also see him play "off ball" as a WLB, then have packages on the edge. It really just depends on how DQ views him; he's a tremendous athlete.

I'm curious to watch him regardless the team he ends up on.

Clemons was a nobody until 2010 and by then he'd put on weight. His listed weight in SEA was 255. Robert Mathis was a 5th round pick and did nothing but spot duty as a rotational pass rusher until year 3, and then in his first season as a full-time starter his pass rush production regressed. Smaller edge rushers don't produce early, and that's what we need. We don't need a guy who can take a few years to gain some bulk and become a good edge rusher eventually, we need a guy who can step in on day 1 and play with his hair on fire. Like, I want a dude where if he was going to a team without any studs on their DL, he'd be drawing double teams by midway through his rookie season. But teams won't be able to double team him on our team because we have Vic. And now Poe. And Jarrett coming into his own. I want the fiercest pass rush in the league NOW. I don't want to have to wait 3 years into a 4 year rookie contract to get production out of a guy.

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35 minutes ago, Kayoh said:

Clemons was a nobody until 2010 and by then he'd put on weight. His listed weight in SEA was 255. Robert Mathis was a 5th round pick and did nothing but spot duty as a rotational pass rusher until year 3, and then in his first season as a full-time starter his pass rush production regressed. Smaller edge rushers don't produce early, and that's what we need. We don't need a guy who can take a few years to gain some bulk and become a good edge rusher eventually, we need a guy who can step in on day 1 and play with his hair on fire. Like, I want a dude where if he was going to a team without any studs on their DL, he'd be drawing double teams by midway through his rookie season. But teams won't be able to double team him on our team because we have Vic. And now Poe. And Jarrett coming into his own. I want the fiercest pass rush in the league NOW. I don't want to have to wait 3 years into a 4 year rookie contract to get production out of a guy.

Most rookie pass rushers take 3 years to hone their craft.

Robert Mathis is a bad comparison as he came at a time when DC's didn't know how to use undersized pass rushers. He also didnt offer anything else other than pass rush. Von Miller produced straight away. He's a much better comparison as he had the varsatility to rush the pass but also play off the ball in space.

I really don't see the risk with Reddick. Best case scenario you're getting a player with Von Millers skillset. Worst case scenario, he struggles to win on the edge due to his size, so you play him as an off ball linebacker in the mold of Ryan Shazier.

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Just now, Smiler11 said:

Most rookie pass rushers take 3 years to hone their craft.

Robert Mathis is a bad comparison as he came at a time when DC's didn't know how to use undersized pass rushers. He also didnt offer anything else other than pass rush. Von Miller produced straight away. He's a much better comparison as he had the varsatility to rush the pass but also play off the ball in space.

I really don't see the risk with Reddick. Best case scenario you're getting a player with Von Millers skillset. Worst case scenario, he struggles to win on the edge due to his size, so you play him as an off ball linebacker in the mold of Ryan Shazier.

Von was 2" taller and 10 lbs heavier than Reddick, and he played the exact same position in Denver's defense that Vic plays in our defense right now. Best case scenario he and Vic are bookend edge rushers, worst case scenario he's a complete bust who's only natural NFL position is one that we're already completely set at.

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1 minute ago, Kayoh said:

Von was 2" taller and 10 lbs heavier than Reddick, and he played the exact same position in Denver's defense that Vic plays in our defense right now. Best case scenario he and Vic are bookend edge rushers, worst case scenario he's a complete bust who's only natural NFL position is one that we're already completely set at.

1" taller and 9 lbs heavier, according to your previous post, but let's not split hairs. Vic Beasley is somewhat currently playing that role (doesn't really play SAM in Base that's been Wheeler), but DQ would have to have some confidence that Beasley or Reddick could rush from the right in nickel.

What position are we already set at? SAM, nickel pass rusher, ILB? Reddick could feasibly play all of those positions.

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That 1" is trivial and he can put on 5-10 lbs. Don't see Bobby Wagner in his game at all. Thought you said you were only trying to remove the scouting aspect with edge rushers? 

Miller is also the closest comp I see, though time will tell.

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Just now, Smiler11 said:

1" taller and 9 lbs heavier, according to your previous post, but let's not split hairs. Vic Beasley is somewhat currently playing that role (doesn't really play SAM in Base that's been Wheeler), but DQ would have to have some confidence that Beasley or Reddick could rush from the right in nickel.

What position are we already set at? SAM, nickel pass rusher, ILB? Reddick could feasibly play all of those positions.

sam, mike, and will. We don't need anything but depth at those positions. We need a starter at RDE and I don't have any interest in trying to move Vic back to that spot. I also don't want Clayborn and Reed to be the only guys on our roster who play that position.

IMO here's what our current needs look like...

URGENT

1. LEO - starting RDE, plays RDE in both base and sub-packages, pure pass rusher who can beat NFL LTs around the edge for quick pressures. Needs to be an elite athlete and ideally 6'4+ and younger than 23 to start the 2017 regular season.

2. RG - Chester is probably gone and even if he isn't I don't want to have to rely on him for another year. I'd be okay with drafting a RG at 31, 63, 95, or with our 4th rd pick if Jessamen Dunker is still available at that point.

SECONDARY

1. 5 Tech - somebody like Kpassagnon, Hall, Walker, or Wise. Big, strong, powerful, and a guy who's gonna be a stout run stuffer playing outside the tackle, or a disruptive pass rusher playing between the tackle and guard.

2. TE - Hooper is kind of an average joe. He's never going to be a prolific receiving TE but I like that he's reliable. To me Hooper is the ideal TE2. I'd really like for us to get a TE1 in this class. I wouldn't mind Njoku at 31, Everett at 63, or Jonnu Smith in the 3rd or 4th round. Somebody who can create matchup problems for the defense. Hooper isn't doing that.

3. FS - I like Ricardo Allen but if Marcus Williams is available at 63, Eddie Jackson at 95, or if Malik Hooker somehow magically falls to us at 31, I'd be cool with us grabbing one of those guys because of their pure upside over Ricardo. I'd also be cool with us taking a late round flier on a guy like Rudy Ford just for the sake of providing competition for Allen, but to me this can be a UDFA to back Allen up and I'd probably be cool with it.

TERTIARY

1. WR - if we had like 10 picks this year I'd want 2 WRs, but as it is we only have 6 so I can't be that greedy. I do like Sanu and I LOVE Gabriel but I don't have a ton of faith in Hardy and we don't really have anyone past that who I see anything in. Maybe Fuller proves me wrong here but he's a 7th rd pick so I'm not really counting on it. We could use a big, tall WR with a big catch radius for redzone looks. We could also use a fast WR who can return kicks and threaten defenses deep when Gabriel needs a breather or in case Gabriel gets hurt or wants to look for other options next year. I just don't want to go back to 2013-2015 with no legit #2 WR behind Julio and no deep threat forcing the defense to choose how to defend us other than just "bracket Julio and let the rest fall in place".

2. RB - I don't know what's going on with Devonta and Tevin but I highly doubt we pay both, especially after we give Trufant his contract. I'd be cool with us going one of two ways at RB. Option one, pure pounder. Big powerful downhill runner who can get us that one yard we seem to struggle so mightily with. Samaje Perine, James Conner, Jamaal Williams, whatever. Option two, another complete 3 down RB to eventually replace Devonta in the rotation. Kareem Hunt, Jeremy McNichols, Aaron Jones (my personal favorite), take your pick. Another option is to take a flier on Joe Williams who has elite talent but character flaws.

3. OT - I want a swing tackle to back both our guys up and if we get one with high upside maybe he can replace Jake with a year or two of NFL coaching. I don't know if I want to see the contract we give Jake when his rookie contract runs out at the end of the 2018 season and I'd rather have a backup plan in place than pay a guy who's never been anything more than average for us.

4. LB - I have a personal bias here. I want Blair Brown. He's short (5'11) but not undersized in any other way, and when you watch him on the field he's like a freaking homing missile. He's fast, has incredible instincts, and tested exceptionally well at the combine, to the point that he's actually more than one full standard deviation more athletic than the average NFL off-ball LB. If we aren't into Blair Brown I'd be cool with spending a 4th-5th round pick on a guy like Duke Riley or Elijah Lee as well. Somebody to add to the LB rotation late. Somebody to maybe compete with Campbell for his starting job. Campbell is athletic and versatile enough to play both will LB and sam LB, so if we get a guy like Elijah Lee in the 5th and he out-plays Campbell, suddenly we get an upgrade at will and a versatile backup who can play basically every LB position in our defense.

QUATERNARY

1. CB - more of a personal thing here, I just love this year's CB class. Gareon Conley, Fabian Moreau, Kevin King, Ahkello Witherspoon, Brian James, this CB class is full of big, tall, long, athletic CBs that Quinn loves and I wouldn't mind us taking one. If we do though, we'd almost have to trade Tru or Jalen, and at this point I'm guessing it'd be Jalen because the FO is clearly intent on keeping Tru around. Regardless, this isn't a need.

2. DT - at this point with Poe, Jarrett, Hageman, Clayborn, Crawford and Upshaw, there's no way we have any interest in drafting a DT this year. Clayborn kicks inside to play 3 tech on occasion. Crawford and Upshaw are probably going to be our 2-man rotation at 5 tech, which will occasionally also kick inside to play 3 tech. Poe, Jarrett, and Hageman can all play 1t and 3t and do it well. I don't think we would have signed Poe if we had any interest in this year's DT class, and I think it's worth noting that we didn't sign him until after the combine. This is the least athletic interior DL class we've seen in a while. Ogunjobi is the best of this group and he's barely above average athletically. He's also a top ~75 or so lock and I don't think our FO valued him that early.

Just now, Falcan Moore said:

That 1" is trivial and he can put on 5-10 lbs. Don't see Bobby Wagner in his game at all. Stick to edge rushers with that stuff.

he didn't ask me who Reddick plays like, he asked me who he was comparable to athletically.

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Don't get it.

 

To me LEO is a target for depth at this point. The guy opposite the LEO is the urgent pick up. And Hasaan Riddick looks like a younger Bobby Wagner type guy right now, because of his coverage ability. I can see the Bobby Wagner comparison in his game really. If they are considering Riddick, then they are moving Campbell somewhere else probably looking for him to be a rusher. They are drafting Riddick for his underneath coverage ability to me. I don't see an every down rusher, more of a blitzer, sub package guy in the NFL. They are picking Riddick up for speed underneath and coverage ability. What we need at LEO is depth, a guy to come in who rushes opposite Beasley on obvious passing downs or a legit spare, the full time guy opposite Beasley needs to be a bigger dude to me, and inside out guy who can also apply pressure to the QB.

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