takeitdown

Toilolo vs Bennett

56 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, quickzero said:

Im pretty sure. At least one; when Tony was here.

:rolleyes:....my point exactly.

Edited by Vandy
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Marcellus Bennett has some questionable knees and is starting his decline. Obviously his stats are better with Brady throwing him the ball and Gronk going down but he's on the downside in my opinion. Toilolo is just entering his prime.

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3 minutes ago, gazoo said:

Marcellus Bennett has some questionable knees and is starting his decline. Obviously his stats are better with Brady throwing him the ball and Gronk going down but he's on the downside in my opinion. Toilolo is just entering his prime.

But do you think that prime includes being a good receiver?  I prefer home grown when possible, but sometimes you have to walk away.

I think he's a solid blocker, but it's hard to see a way he's a viable receiving threat (unless just forgotten about).  Part of this is my belief that each TE and RB should be a viable pass catching threat.  And another part is that we don't have a matchup TE on the roster (if we had one in the Super Bowl, he would have gone for 120+ yards given the coverages.)  Seems like we gave up an opportunity to get one to retain someone who is 90% a blocker.

Now if Lolo somehow becomes a receiver at this point, which I really don't expect, then yeah, this will be a no brainer.

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13 minutes ago, takeitdown said:

But do you think that prime includes being a good receiver?  I prefer home grown when possible, but sometimes you have to walk away.

I think he's a solid blocker, but it's hard to see a way he's a viable receiving threat (unless just forgotten about).  Part of this is my belief that each TE and RB should be a viable pass catching threat.  And another part is that we don't have a matchup TE on the roster (if we had one in the Super Bowl, he would have gone for 120+ yards given the coverages.)  Seems like we gave up an opportunity to get one to retain someone who is 90% a blocker.

Now if Lolo somehow becomes a receiver at this point, which I really don't expect, then yeah, this will be a no brainer.

I think Toilolo may be the best blocking tight end in the NFL.  He's such a good blocker he could even play offensive tackle in a bind.

 As far as receiving he serviceable. His hands improve dramatically last year from previous seasons though so he may be better this year than he was last year receiving I don't know

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Toilolo's contract is essentially 2 years 7 million. That last year is a 5 mil cap hit, but we would only eat 1 mil of it by cutting him while saving 4 mil.

Contracts aren't about the max dollar amount or even the average per year. It's really about the guarantees as that is what causes you to not have a lot of flexibility as it leads to lots of dead money.

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10 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Toilolo's contract is essentially 2 years 7 million. That last year is a 5 mil cap hit, but we would only eat 1 mil of it by cutting him while saving 4 mil.

Contracts aren't about the max dollar amount or even the average per year. It's really about the guarantees as that is what causes you to not have a lot of flexibility as it leads to lots of dead money.

The vast majority of NFL contracts are essentially 2 year deals.

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40 minutes ago, FentayeJones said:

The vast majority of NFL contracts are essentially 2 year deals.

Yes. Dollars amounts don't matter at all. It's all structure.

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Link? Didn't know we were looking for a TE? Hooper is the man who will have a good year. Followed by Toilolo, Perkins, DJ.

 

Maybe one in the later rounds, but that's it.

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40 minutes ago, atljbo said:

Levine cap hit is 2.5 mil this year... what is the problem

He'll have a $4.5 million total cap impact if released after year one, $8 million total if released after year 2.

It's basically a 4 mil per year deal no matter how long it lasts.  I agree that it's kind of high for a player of his caliber based on the current market.

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7 hours ago, takeitdown said:

No, I'm actually very familiar with Toilolo.  Toilolo is a player who blocks well, and only catches "schemed" balls when he's wide open.  He's not a good route runner, and can't catch contested balls, and is thus a very one dimensional Tight End...one step above just kicking another OT out to block.

While I don't know Bennett's personality profile (and you may be right) he is a radically better pass catcher than Toilolo and gives more versatility.

Hopefully Toilolo will come around and learn how to catch in traffic, but you don't pay for what you hope someone is, you pay for what they are.

This is not an entirely true statement. There are tons of free agent contracts handed out every offseason based on nothing more than hope. See this mysterious Jack Crawford fellow the Falcons signed. What has he done to deserve the contract he was given? HeIl, I know a **** ton about other teams, not just the Falcons, and I legit have never heard of him until now. So he was not paid based on what he is. He was paid based on the hope that Dan Quinn can get more out of him than what he has currently done with the Cowboys.

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5 minutes ago, atljbo said:

If we cut him after this year... His cap hit  would be 2 mil and the cap saying would be 2.5 mil.... .

You can look at it as savings, but in reality, you're taking a $2.5 million cap hit this year and a $2 million cap hit next year for one year of play.

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toilolo can block the **** out of folks,either chipping or straight on PLUS he is the dang invisible man.he just materializes 20-30 yards down field wide open.I'll take it.Schaub is Matt's constant tester,he follows Matt around literally all day and quizzes him on sets,defenses,plays etc.It has become second nature to Matt and Schaub is a huge part of that.We got Poe,just enjoy it and STOP SECOND GUESSING THE COACH.I am not being snarky but enough already.We have gotten to the SUPER BOWL in just 2 years since the smitty ball days.come on man.

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34 minutes ago, PK Manley said:

You can look at it as savings, but in reality, you're taking a $2.5 million cap hit this year and a $2 million cap hit next year for one year of play.

well it is a savings... But its just a way to spread the money out.

 

But i get your point.. you dont think he was worth that ... Well the problem is  we as in fans will never know what the market for Levine

 

But yea Rhett Ellison signed a 4 year 18 mil contract and Ryan Griffen signed a 3 year 9 mil

Also Ryan Griffen is making less but has more GTD money

Levine is better then both.... Dion Sims is making 6 mils a year now and Levine was better them him also last year.... Again We dont know the market these players had

 

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5 minutes ago, atljbo said:

well it is a savings... But its just a way to spread the money out.

 

But i get your point.. you dont think he was worth that ... Well the problem is  we as in fans will never know what the market for Levine

 

But yea Rhett Ellison signed a 4 year 18 mil contract and Ryan Griffen signed a 3 year 9 mil

 

Levine is better then both.... Dion Sims is making 6 mils a year now and Levine was better them him also last year.... Again We dont know the market these players had

It's cool...I just think it was kind of high for him, but I don't worry about cap space as much as many on here.  I just enjoy discussing the cap impacts.

I like Toilolo and am glad he's sticking around.

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1 minute ago, PK Manley said:

It's cool...I just think it was kind of high for him, but I don't worry about cap space as much as many on here.  I just enjoy discussing the cap impacts.

I like Toilolo and am glad he's sticking around.

i get your point,,.... I wasnt a fan until this past year... i think he is a good blocking TE that is sneaky as a receiving threat ... Even tho we will have alot of cap next year... i dont see us paying that bump up in pay tho

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17 minutes ago, Bunchy Carter said:

People KEEP trying to get rid of Toilolo. It's pure chicanery.

Yup.....See Paul Worrilow and Kory Biermann before him.

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9 hours ago, takeitdown said:

I was glad to see the team signed Poe (as were most of us.)  If he can get back to prior form at all, then the DL can make a big step forward.

However, I was confused earlier at the relatively high dollar contracts for Schaub and Toilolo.  Tying up 8m/yr in these 2 guys seems excessive given what they do.

To that end...what do you guys think Toilolo at 4M vs Martellus Bennett at 7M?  Bennett is a similar blocker but you get an actual pass catcher when he's in the game.  It would take away the need for another TE, and let Bennett and Hooper be our two TE set, with Perkins developing.

I'm in favor of midtier signings, but when the difference in cost to get to the next tier up is just the cost of a backup player, it seems worth the jump.

I'm mostly pleased with the offseason, but it's just a question of general allocation of resources.

But who said Bennett is gonna grind like Toilolo and actually give 100% plus Lolo knows the offense and he is an awesome blocker and he has become a better receiving tight end than when we drafted him took him three years but it was due.

And did you see that stiff arm

58cdd826c875c_download(6).jpg.5197ea4540d0362f9731490c2f85dada.jpg

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7 minutes ago, atljbo said:

i get your point,,.... I wasnt a fan until this past year... i think he is a good blocking TE that is sneaky as a receiving threat ... Even tho we will have alot of cap next year... i dont see us paying that bump up in pay tho

I agree...he stepped up last year, but he'll need to become a complete tight end to justify the next couple years of his contract.

However, he's been improving from where he was early on, so who knows.  Maybe he'll make that next step.

 

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56 minutes ago, GATXBOI said:

But who said Bennett is gonna grind like Toilolo and actually give 100% plus Lolo knows the offense and he is an awesome blocker and he has become a better receiving tight end than when we drafted him took him three years but it was due.

And did you see that stiff arm

58cdd826c875c_download(6).jpg.5197ea4540d0362f9731490c2f85dada.jpg

Toilolo plays violently. Seriously, he caught a 20 yard pass right in front of my seat (I was in 8th row from the field) during the first playoff game and the violence jacked me up even more. He went through two defenders and I could hear him grunting and fighting while he was mowing them over. 

Last offseason he spent an inordinate amount of time on the jugs machine after practice every day catching passes.....it really helped his hands.

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11 minutes ago, gazoo said:

Toilolo plays violently. Seriously, he caught a 20 yard pass right in front of my seat (I was in 8th row from the field) during the first playoff game and the violence jacked me up even more. He went through two defenders and I could hear him grunting and fighting while he was mowing them over. 

Last offseason he spent an inordinate amount of time on the jugs machine after practice every day catching passes.....it really helped his hands.

TE is notoriously difficult to assimilate to the pros. He has improved every year and had a real nasty demeanor last year. Operation D baby!

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1 minute ago, Charles Lindberg said:

TE is notoriously difficult to assimilate to the pros. He has improved every year and had a real nasty demeanor last year. Operation D baby!

So many times when posters would post gifs of plays here, if you paid close attention you'd see over and over it was a key block of Toilolos that sprung the running back for a long run or you'd see him in pass protection totally taking his man out of the play.  

I think coaches really like his tenancity and aggressiveness. He's tough as nails.  He has much more of an impact in games than many posters realize. 

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19 minutes ago, gazoo said:

Toilolo plays violently. Seriously, he caught a 20 yard pass right in front of my seat (I was in 8th row from the field) during the first playoff game and the violence jacked me up even more. He went through two defenders and I could hear him grunting and fighting while he was mowing them over.

in the game in Seattle, he manhandled a DE so bad they called holding, or maybe they called it because Julio had just caught a pass that got us closer to a FG but Lolo just blasted that fool.

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