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capologist

About those student loans...

49 posts in this topic

On 3/18/2017 at 6:02 PM, Spectre said:

A correlation, without causation. What is the money going into?

My mother worked with several universities, I have a vocational school and meet with people from other schools and universities on a regular basis, and my brother's fiance has been a provost at three different universities.

We have all heard it directly from the mouths of university administration. You wouldn't believe what they do to screw students over to make more money. Besides raising tuition as FA goes up, there is also adding unnecessary stuffer courses and not offering courses every semester. Gotta keep the gravy train going

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11 hours ago, mfaulk57158 said:

Yacht's and mansions are still expensive as fck though.....

Imagine how much they would be if the government guaranteed loans for people that were much more than they could get from a private lender.

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4 hours ago, Dago 3.0 said:

My mother worked with several universities, I have a vocational school and meet with people from other schools and universities on a regular basis, and my brother's fiance has been a provost at three different universities.

We have all heard it directly from the mouths of university administration. You wouldn't believe what they do to screw students over to make more money. Besides raising tuition as FA goes up, there is also adding unnecessary stuffer courses and not offering courses every semester. Gotta keep the gravy train going

I don't doubt this for a second, it's not about the student or the affordability for students, it's about being a bottom line business for profit.  

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16 hours ago, Dago 3.0 said:

My mother worked with several universities, I have a vocational school and meet with people from other schools and universities on a regular basis, and my brother's fiance has been a provost at three different universities.

We have all heard it directly from the mouths of university administration. You wouldn't believe what they do to screw students over to make more money. Besides raising tuition as FA goes up, there is also adding unnecessary stuffer courses and not offering courses every semester. Gotta keep the gravy train going

It's not going into the pockets of the professors, it isn't getting more expensive to teach, as professors make less on average than they did 30 years ago, and there are less full time professors than ever to provide benefits to. So where is it going? The quadrupling of administration staff over the past 30 years, the higher pay administration staff see on average, and a bunch of ******** fluff to flaunt the prestige of the university. 

One day, this country will have to learn, that approaching every situation with, "I'm going to be a greedy piece of **** in every way humanly possible" isn't a pathway for success. We seem to lag behind many other countries because culturally, we're more concerned with "**** you, I got mine."

Education and healthcare are the two most important investments in our society today and tomorrow, yet we as a country want to **** around and handle it in a profit based way, and we wonder why our PhD programs are filled with foreigners and we have one of the worst healthcare systems in the first world. 

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7 hours ago, Spectre said:

It's not going into the pockets of the professors, it isn't getting more expensive to teach, as professors make less on average than they did 30 years ago, and there are less full time professors than ever to provide benefits to. So where is it going? The quadrupling of administration staff over the past 30 years, the higher pay administration staff see on average, and a bunch of ******** fluff to flaunt the prestige of the university. 

One day, this country will have to learn, that approaching every situation with, "I'm going to be a greedy piece of **** in every way humanly possible" isn't a pathway for success. We seem to lag behind many other countries because culturally, we're more concerned with "**** you, I got mine."

Education and healthcare are the two most important investments in our society today and tomorrow, yet we as a country want to **** around and handle it in a profit based way, and we wonder why our PhD programs are filled with foreigners and we have one of the worst healthcare systems in the first world. 

and unfortunately the vocational sector is pretty horrible in that regard as well. I busted a school owner near me for ghosting students and stealing financial aid. she is spending 6 years in jail

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2 hours ago, Dago 3.0 said:

and unfortunately the vocational sector is pretty horrible in that regard as well. I busted a school owner near me for ghosting students and stealing financial aid. she is spending 6 years in jail

Whistle blower...

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On 3/18/2017 at 3:20 PM, WhenFalconsWin said:

Exactly, that made it more expensive, just like healthcare.  The 10 worst words you will ever hear are: We're here from the government and we're here to help...run as fast as you can :D

You've drawn a primary causal conclusion that isn't really supported by reality. 

 

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On 3/20/2017 at 9:51 AM, Dago 3.0 said:

My mother worked with several universities, I have a vocational school and meet with people from other schools and universities on a regular basis, and my brother's fiance has been a provost at three different universities.

We have all heard it directly from the mouths of university administration. You wouldn't believe what they do to screw students over to make more money. Besides raising tuition as FA goes up, there is also adding unnecessary stuffer courses and not offering courses every semester. Gotta keep the gravy train going

This is a pretty standard issue across literally every industry/sector in the American economic system. Not unique to education at all. 

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1 hour ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

This is a pretty standard issue across literally every industry/sector in the American economic system. Not unique to education at all. 

what isn't standard is putting people in $50k-$100k in debt before they ever try to get a decent job

granted, these kids don't have to take the loans but I have seen the crappy job most FA people do in explaining how things work and emphasizing the debt after graduation

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4 minutes ago, Dago 3.0 said:

what isn't standard is putting people in $50k-$100k in debt before they ever try to get a decent job

granted, these kids don't have to take the loans but I have seen the crappy job most FA people do in explaining how things work and emphasizing the debt after graduation

And the educating process should start well before then.  I think a personal finance class should be a capstone graduation required class in high school.  These kids need to understand the consequences of debt and other alternatives for them.  They could easily go to local schools far more affordably or at least do the first two years at the local school and then transfer.  Just ridiculous what these kids are allowed to enter into.  Why their parents let them enter into these kinds of loans are beyond me...

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9 minutes ago, capologist said:

And the educating process should start well before then.  I think a personal finance class should be a capstone graduation required class in high school.  These kids need to understand the consequences of debt and other alternatives for them.  They could easily go to local schools far more affordably or at least do the first two years at the local school and then transfer.  Just ridiculous what these kids are allowed to enter into.  Why their parents let them enter into these kinds of loans are beyond me...

their parents can't stop them from getting Direct Loans

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18 minutes ago, Dago 3.0 said:

what isn't standard is putting people in $50k-$100k in debt before they ever try to get a decent job

granted, these kids don't have to take the loans but I have seen the crappy job most FA people do in explaining how things work and emphasizing the debt after graduation

Look, there are few people, if any, who empathize more with my fellow student loan holders than I do. My 10-year standard repayment monthly bill likely exceeds the mortgage payment of everyone on this board. I'm in the "Top 1%" of student debt holders. It's outrageous. And I have serious serious policy concerns about how this country has approached higher learning. 

But that is why questions of public policy with respect to "public goods" arenas are so important. And, unfortunately, its something we've struggled with for decades. The problem has worsened over the last 20 years or so but its been percolating for decades. 

The fact is, our economy is primarily built on the "profit motive" which simply isnt sustainable when we're talking about vital public services like education and health care. Thats not a problem of government, IMO. it's a problem of social engineering and philosophy. And the fact that both areas bear the scars of nonsense politicking is shameful. 

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18 minutes ago, capologist said:

And the educating process should start well before then.  I think a personal finance class should be a capstone graduation required class in high school.  These kids need to understand the consequences of debt and other alternatives for them.  They could easily go to local schools far more affordably or at least do the first two years at the local school and then transfer.  Just ridiculous what these kids are allowed to enter into.  Why their parents let them enter into these kinds of loans are beyond me...

This works (sort of) for undergrad debt. It's a flawed analysis but its going to get you closer to reality in the setting of an undergraduate education. 

But when we start talking about professional degrees (JDs, MDs, MBAs, etc.) the calculus changes drastically. Like....night and day, really. 

So any given student is faced with a choice (unless they're fortunate enough to have an employer willing to pay for graduate education): either take out loans in excess of six figures or.....don't get a professional degree? 

 

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12 minutes ago, Dago 3.0 said:

their parents can't stop them from getting Direct Loans

Maybe not legally but when I say "let" I mean not talking some sense into them.  I just can't understand it...

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2 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

This works (sort of) for undergrad debt. It's a flawed analysis but its going to get you closer to reality in the setting of an undergraduate education. 

But when we start talking about professional degrees (JDs, MDs, MBAs, etc.) the calculus changes drastically. Like....night and day, really. 

So any given student is faced with a choice (unless they're fortunate enough to have an employer willing to pay for graduate education): either take out loans in excess of six figures or.....don't get a professional degree? 

 

I don't see that as the only two options necessarily, especially on the MBA...

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Just now, capologist said:

I don't see that as the only two options necessarily, especially on the MBA...

I'm sure there are other options but that's the most common choices available. I suppose you could wait and try to save up the cost the attend an MBA program...although you're incurring costs in doing that and devaluing the degree through the expenditure of time. You could go PT but again, that's costly in terms of money and time.

And thats just a two-year MBA. 

 

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1 hour ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

I'm sure there are other options but that's the most common choices available. I suppose you could wait and try to save up the cost the attend an MBA program...although you're incurring costs in doing that and devaluing the degree through the expenditure of time. You could go PT but again, that's costly in terms of money and time.

And thats just a two-year MBA. 

 

There are companies that will hire you that will pay for your MBA tuition.  It's one of the perks working for said company.  That is a great deal if you can find that company. Several members in my family have gone that route.  

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1 hour ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

There are companies that will hire you that will pay for your MBA tuition.  It's one of the perks working for said company.  That is a great deal if you can find that company. Several members in my family have gone that route.  

Yes, if you're fortunate enough to work for an employer willing to pay for additional education, by all means take advantage. 

But if you aren't, you're stuck looking at a hefty bill. 

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Basically move to a company more than likely up north and get into a top 10 program.  They will pay for those top 10 school degrees (aka Wharton)

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41 minutes ago, lostone said:

Basically move to a company more than likely up north and get into a top 10 program.  They will pay for those top 10 school degrees (aka Wharton)

Riding WFW wave on this one

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On 3/20/2017 at 9:51 AM, Dago 3.0 said:

My mother worked with several universities, I have a vocational school and meet with people from other schools and universities on a regular basis, and my brother's fiance has been a provost at three different universities.

We have all heard it directly from the mouths of university administration. You wouldn't believe what they do to screw students over to make more money. Besides raising tuition as FA goes up, there is also adding unnecessary stuffer courses and not offering courses every semester. Gotta keep the gravy train going

I dropped out of Delgado community in New Orleans due to the ridiculous amount of time it took to get a degree in a certain discipline.  I enrolled in some technical programs and had a job in IT in six months after.  Still pissed about all the time and money I wasted learning something that only took 6 months or so.

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17 hours ago, mfaulk57158 said:

I dropped out of Delgado community in New Orleans due to the ridiculous amount of time it took to get a degree in a certain discipline.  I enrolled in some technical programs and had a job in IT in six months after.  Still pissed about all the time and money I wasted learning something that only took 6 months or so.

Smart man.  This is the other problem. Advisors and such are shoving college down kids' throats when many simply need tech school.  I'll let you figure out why that might be...;)

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1 hour ago, capologist said:

Smart man.  This is the other problem. Advisors and such are shoving college down kids' throats when many simply need tech school.  I'll let you figure out why that might be...;)

Money...:rain:

 

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