etherdome

Free Safety is not a concern for me

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I have seen a lot of people mocking free safeties for the upcoming draft.  Some people even suggest signing Eric Berry.  I don't agree. 

Ricardo Allen is not the best FS in the league, but he appears to have improved throughout the season.  I like the fact that he is the sort of player that is "all in".  He is a tireless student of the scheme and serves as a great example of how to handle your business.  

Furthermore, I think we have a guy on the roster that could develop into an even better FS.  Has anyone noticed Poole's approach to the game on the field?  That SOB is physical.  I think his future is at FS.

When Trufant is re-signed, we will have an apparent log jam at CB.  I would move Poole to back-up FS and see what happens.  And as far as the offseason goes, I would concentrate on adding front seven players to the defense and OL help on offense.  

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Defensive line help, especially interior, are a much bigger need for the defense.  Assuming babs retires (he should) and we cut Tyson Jackson with a post June 1st designation (we should), DT will be pretty thin.  That and we still don't know the outcome of Hagemen's lawsuit. If that comes back bad then you know we will cut ties and that leaves Jarrett as our only competent true interior linemen.  There are others you could stick there, but not that would thrive or move the pocket.  

I don't expect a huge splash in free agency this year like we are used to because we want to extend some of our core guys in freeman and trufant.  So I'm sure we add some value guys like normal, but outside of guard I would love to see this as another defensive heavy draft.  Improving that front seven will make our secondary look night and day better.  Our secondary looked great the first half of the super bowl, because we pressured Brady on half of his snaps.  They looked like garbage in the second half because we couldn't get pressure on him.

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9 minutes ago, red falcon said:

We need more pass rushers.

Agree. But it's myopic to think we don't need to upgrade the FS spot. Rico is not an overly instinctive guy and he just has limited range. Nice player, great depth for both cb and FS. But put a true playmaker back at single high and this defense gets really good, really fast.

I don't know that Berry is the answer, but the draft is loaded with rangy and athletic FS types.

On the Freeman contract; I say don't overpay for him. He's a great weapon, but not worth a  huge contract; and it seems he wants to be  a bell-cow back.

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6 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

Agree. But it's myopic to think we don't need to upgrade the FS spot. Rico is not an overly instinctive guy and he just has limited range. Nice player, great depth for both cb and FS. But put a true playmaker back at single high and this defense gets really good, really fast.

I don't know that Berry is the answer, but the draft is loaded with rangy and athletic FS types.

On the Freeman contract; I say don't overpay for him. He's a great weapon, but not worth a  huge contract; and it seems he wants to be  a bell-cow back.

I agree Rico is a stop gap, we don't have to be overly aggressive this draft. I just feel the more horses we have up front the better the defense will be. I am not worried about corner as long as Quinn is here, he knows how to develop and what to look for. 

I agree don't over pay free. We are in good hands guys, promising future for this team. 

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1 minute ago, red falcon said:

I agree Rico is a stop gap, we don't have to be overly aggressive this draft. I just feel the more horses we have up front the better the defense will be. I am not worried about corner as long as Quinn is here, he knows how to develop and what to look for. 

I agree don't over pay free. We are in good hands guys, promising future for this team. 

yup on the overaggressive part. We should be able to get a guy like Marcus Williams or Marcus Mayes in second round. Mayes FYI is a Quinn UF guy. very rangy. I think an EDGE or Strongside DE will fall to us in the first. And RIco will still have a role. You need guys like him on a team. Still gets snaps and is great depth.

Yeah, overpaying a rb who i'm convinced was a system guy is ridiculous. I'd actually offer him to shanny. He's got Hyde who he can pair with Free. Get a decent pick for him and draft a replacement. Sarkisan has had success with power/speed tandems.

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3 hours ago, etherdome said:

I have seen a lot of people mocking free safeties for the upcoming draft.  Some people even suggest signing Eric Berry.  I don't agree. 

Ricardo Allen is not the best FS in the league, but he appears to have improved throughout the season.  I like the fact that he is the sort of player that is "all in".  He is a tireless student of the scheme and serves as a great example of how to handle your business.  

Furthermore, I think we have a guy on the roster that could develop into an even better FS.  Has anyone noticed Poole's approach to the game on the field?  That SOB is physical.  I think his future is at FS.

When Trufant is re-signed, we will have an apparent log jam at CB.  I would move Poole to back-up FS and see what happens.  And as far as the offseason goes, I would concentrate on adding front seven players to the defense and OL help on offense.  

Agree 100%. I wasn't a fan at the beginning of the season, but Rico has turned into a solid player. 2 ints in the playoffs and NE didn't really challenge us deep in the SB. That tells me he he did a solid job at being in the right position.  Upgrading with EB would be awesome... If a little thing called money and cap space didn't exist.

Overall, I think Rico is still continuing to improve. 

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1 minute ago, camfalcon said:

Agree 100%. I wasn't a fan at the beginning of the season, but Rico has turned into a solid player. 2 ints in the playoffs and NE didn't really challenge us deep in the SB. That tells me he he did a solid job at being in the right position.  Upgrading with EB would be awesome... If a little thing called money and cap space didn't exist.

Overall, I think Rico is still continuing to improve. 

I think that he's hit his ceiling. Good player, but not even close to the prototype FS you want in this scheme. Watch that Super bowl and you see him struggling in range. He aint a single high guy. I like Rico, but I think he's better when you limit his range and space. I don't know that berry is the guy that i'd want to blow our wad on, either.

Good draft to, at the least, get someone athletic and rangy to challenge Rico. And I do not think Alford is a FS, either

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2 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

I think that he's hit his ceiling. Good player, but not even close to the prototype FS you want in this scheme. Watch that Super bowl and you see him struggling in range. He aint a single high guy. I like Rico, but I think he's better when you limit his range and space. I don't know that berry is the guy that i'd want to blow our wad on, either.

Good draft to, at the least, get someone athletic and rangy to challenge Rico. And I do not think Alford is a FS, either

I don't think he's a huge strength for our team, but I don't think he's keeping us from winning the SB either. I don't have a problem with drafting and developing a guy that can compete with him for the starting gig, but I would rather use our top 2-3 picks on continuing to improve the trenches. 

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9 minutes ago, camfalcon said:

I don't think he's a huge strength for our team, but I don't think he's keeping us from winning the SB either. I don't have a problem with drafting and developing a guy that can compete with him for the starting gig, but I would rather use our top 2-3 picks on continuing to improve the trenches. 

We agree believe it or not. He's one of those guys that's solid enough that you don't have to reach for an upgrade. But, depending on who is on the board you might grab an upgrade. Marcus Maye is one to watch. Rangy and physical FS from Florida, who flourishes in schemes like ours.

I definitely want trench help, although adding EDGE guys and a base DE that can move inside is really my focus. But if we don't upgrade Rico, or draft for depth, I trust in Quinn.

But, let me clarify, Rico is still a valuable piece. a guy that can play cb and safety adequately is a nice piece on any team.

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Agree with OP. 

The Panthers went to the SB with Ol man Harper and was it our own Thomas DeCoud as their safeties?

What really was shutting down other teams were the dominant DLine and LBS. We need to get to that level since teams will have to pass to keep up with out offense. 

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35 minutes ago, UnrealfalcoN said:

Agree with OP. 

The Panthers went to the SB with Ol man Harper and was it our own Thomas DeCoud as their safeties?

What really was shutting down other teams were the dominant DLine and LBS. We need to get to that level since teams will have to pass to keep up with out offense. 

different defense. In the scheme DQ employs, the FS is vital. Rico's improvement was a big reason for our success. Is he upgradeable? Yes, if you get a rangy, athletic speedster that can patrol that single high region. The pass rush benefits greatly from a tighter zone, and a true single high guy (earl Thomas being the best) keeps everything in front, and you see coverage sacks.

Now does that mean we neglect the pass rushing dept? of course not. I'd almost wager we're getting an EDGE guy. Maybe a FA and draft pick or even a couple of draft picks

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1 hour ago, MSalmon said:

I think that he's hit his ceiling. Good player, but not even close to the prototype FS you want in this scheme. Watch that Super bowl and you see him struggling in range. He aint a single high guy. I like Rico, but I think he's better when you limit his range and space. I don't know that berry is the guy that i'd want to blow our wad on, either.

Good draft to, at the least, get someone athletic and rangy to challenge Rico. And I do not think Alford is a FS, either

What do you think about moving Poole to FS?  He has the size and attitude to excel at open-field tackles.  

I don't know whether Rico has hit his ceiling.  I think he has more.  Still, I would not use a first or second day pick on FS.  

IF there is doubt about what our roster can offer at FS, then I would draft a FS, like Tony Conner, in the fifth.  Conner was a great player two years ago.  He fell off the map due to an ACL injury.  My bet is that he will be fully recovered and re-habbed by this next season.

I see a very strong need at playmakers in the front seven.  That is where I would go with our early defensive picks.  

 

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5 minutes ago, etherdome said:

What do you think about moving Poole to FS?  He has the size and attitude to excel at open-field tackles.  

I don't know whether Rico has hit his ceiling.  I think he has more.  Still, I would not use a first or second day pick on FS.  

IF there is doubt about what our roster can offer at FS, then I would draft a FS, like Tony Conner, in the fifth.  Conner was a great player two years ago.  He fell off the map due to an ACL injury.  My bet is that he will be fully recovered and re-habbed by this next season.

I see a very strong need at playmakers in the front seven.  That is where I would go with our early defensive picks.  

 

Poole to FS is interesting. I haven't really thought through it. He's definitely a physical player with good size. I don't really know how his range is--which is one of Rico's limitations.

My use of picks on FS, really depends on how the draft unfolds. I hate reaching, and lately TD has quit reaching and I think we're seeing great results. But, i'll concede, that unless that prototype FS DQ wants is on the board, we won't draft one early.

I like playmakers at all level. And no disrespect to Rico but a guy Malik Hooker, Jamal Adams or even late first or second rounders like Marcus Williams, Budda Baker and Marcus Maye are huge upgrades. The whole defense improves the better we get back at FS.

And, all this is absolutely not a nay say on Rico. He's a valuable piece. Having a guy that can play nb and FS on roster gives us a lot of options and great depth

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14 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

Poole to FS is interesting. I haven't really thought through it. He's definitely a physical player with good size. I don't really know how his range is--which is one of Rico's limitations.

My use of picks on FS, really depends on how the draft unfolds. I hate reaching, and lately TD has quit reaching and I think we're seeing great results. But, i'll concede, that unless that prototype FS DQ wants is on the board, we won't draft one early.

I like playmakers at all level. And no disrespect to Rico but a guy Malik Hooker, Jamal Adams or even late first or second rounders like Marcus Williams, Budda Baker and Marcus Maye are huge upgrades. The whole defense improves the better we get back at FS.

And, all this is absolutely not a nay say on Rico. He's a valuable piece. Having a guy that can play nb and FS on roster gives us a lot of options and great depth

I hear 'ya, MS.  We are all looking at ways to improve the defense and solidify the OL.  

Besides the obvious brain fart by Quinn (not taking the FG with 3+minutes left in the game), we could have used a punishing interior run offense and some more pass rushing depth on D.  

If we can add an upgrade at RG ( a guy that can power open holes, as well as work in a ZBS) and a couple of pass rushers from inside and out, we should be able to dominate throughout the playoffs.  

 

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I would start by signing a very good RG and extending Matthew's contract.  

The priority should be to protect Ryan.......no matter the cost.  After that, we should be able to enhance the defense with fast and hungry prospects from the draft.  

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5 minutes ago, etherdome said:

I hear 'ya, MS.  We are all looking at ways to improve the defense and solidify the OL.  

Besides the obvious brain fart by Quinn (not taking the FG with 3+minutes left in the game), we could have used a punishing interior run offense and some more pass rushing depth on D.  

If we can add an upgrade at RG ( a guy that can power open holes, as well as work in a ZBS) and a couple of pass rushers from inside and out, we should be able to dominate throughout the playoffs.  

 

Yes, sir!

im with you in the RG spot. Would really like a younger guy with talent over Chester. I have absolute faith that DQ and TD will improve this team ,mgreatly. With such a young defensive core the future is bright

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4 hours ago, MSalmon said:

I think that he's hit his ceiling. Good player, but not even close to the prototype FS you want in this scheme. Watch that Super bowl and you see him struggling in range. He aint a single high guy. I like Rico, but I think he's better when you limit his range and space. I don't know that berry is the guy that i'd want to blow our wad on, either.

Good draft to, at the least, get someone athletic and rangy to challenge Rico. And I do not think Alford is a FS, either

I don't think Rico has hit his ceiling. He's getting better and better. FS isn't a postition I'd going after early rounds. In this defense Rico is a cleaner. That's his job. And he's a d@mn good cleaner. He's saved countless plays that nobody ever gives him credit for.

 

His instincts are good and getting better for the position and with Manuel as the DC I think he'll have a breakout year. If I'm Quinn I'm certainly not focused on FS early. I'm going DT/DE. I'm not going after Eric Berry either. I'm building my young defense thru the draft. Believe it or not we don't have any holes. FS isn't a hole.

 

We need to get that dline younger and stronger tho. If you noticed when the dline stepped up in the playoffs Rico had 2 picks. Drafting a new FS isn't gonna make a difference if the dline doesn't do what it needs to do  to make quinns defense work.

 

If the defense continues to play like it did in the playoffs starting next season Rico will have 6 picks and make his first pro bowl. His ceiling is definitely not reached. This was only his second year starting at FS. A convert at that. It takes at least 3 years for players to fall into their jobs. This will be year 3. 

 

The names you called out have to 1st have the traits quinn likes in a FS for this system. So it's not about just having any FS that was good in college. Just like most scratched their heads on the Neal pick. There may be a FS in the 5th round that quinn likes. I just don't think the 1st two rounds warrant a FS with the way rico's played. He's not that bad. 

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Rico isn't bad at all, he's average if not slightly above average. We need front 7 starters/depth and some OLine help much more than a FS.

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58 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

I don't think Rico has hit his ceiling. He's getting better and better. FS isn't a postition I'd going after early rounds. In this defense Rico is a cleaner. That's his job. And he's a d@mn good cleaner. He's saved countless plays that nobody ever gives him credit for.

 

His instincts are good and getting better for the position and with Manuel as the DC I think he'll have a breakout year. If I'm Quinn I'm certainly not focused on FS early. I'm going DT/DE. I'm not going after Eric Berry either. I'm building my young defense thru the draft. Believe it or not we don't have any holes. FS isn't a hole.

 

We need to get that dline younger and stronger tho. If you noticed when the dline stepped up in the playoffs Rico had 2 picks. Drafting a new FS isn't gonna make a difference if the dline doesn't do what it needs to do  to make quinns defense work.

 

If the defense continues to play like it did in the playoffs starting next season Rico will have 6 picks and make his first pro bowl. His ceiling is definitely not reached. This was only his second year starting at FS. A convert at that. It takes at least 3 years for players to fall into their jobs. This will be year 3. 

 

The names you called out have to 1st have the traits quinn likes in a FS for this system. So it's not about just having any FS that was good in college. Just like most scratched their heads on the Neal pick. There may be a FS in the 5th round that quinn likes. I just don't think the 1st two rounds warrant a FS with the way rico's played. He's not that bad. 

It's because a lot are looking for our Earl Thomas.Thats it pure and simple and can't get past it.The excuse is because we don't have that guy the defense won't be as good.

Its much like all that trade Trufant garbage because they think Collins is an instantly made replacement so Trufant is expendable.

The thing a lot of fans don't understand that Seattle is the blueprint but we don't have to rinse wash repeat we can still build like them just have our own flavour.

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1 minute ago, kiwifalcon said:

It's because a lot are looking for our Earl Thomas.Thats it pure and simple and can't get past it.The excuse is because we don't have that guy the defense won't be as good.

Its much like all that trade Trufant garbage because they think Collins is an instantly made replacement so Trufant is expendable.

The thing a lot of fans don't understand that Seattle is the blueprint but we don't have to rinse wash repeat we can still build like them just have our own flavour.

But even more what fans do t understand is earl is earl if that dline isn't constantly putting pressure on the qb. It's like they think earl is just making plays by himself out there. Seattle has a d@mm good dline that gets good pressure. We saw what Rico looked like in the playoffs when the line was getting nice interior pressure. There's only one earl Thomas but what I've seen in Rico is when the defense gelled is enough to move foward with what we have with some new additions and depth. As long as quinn keeps the atmosphere of competition alive we'll be a top 5 defense this year. 

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