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AREA 51

Nfl On Fox: What Happened Between Jonathan Martin And Richie Incognito?

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Think about that, SB . . . and tell me I'm wrong!

You're wrong. These guys get paid millions to play ball 16 regular season games a season.

Soldiers in Afghanistan have a hostile work environment too. But they do their job, and they are getting paid a fraction of what these players are making.

And if you don't think Martin's absence hurt the team...they had to put Clabo back at RT with Martin out. OUCH!!!

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I'm waiting internet tough guys. I'd love to hear how it would be no big deal to leave one of your co-workers a voicemail like Incognito left Martin.

Not all tough guys are bullies or support intimidation tactics. Not all tough guys think violence is the answer to every problem. In fact, it takes a tougher than tough type of dude not to resort to violence sometimes.

Not surprising you've never known any real tough guys, they don't hang with MB frauds ;)

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Looks like a very large number of NFL players are taking Incognito's side.

What I don't think people are getting, or at least acknowledging is that a NFL locker room is not the corporate office environment that most of us are used to. They are full of alpha males all establishing a pecking order and judging the toughness of the other guys on their team. Despite Goodell's best efforts to ruin many aspects of the game, pro football is still a violent contact sport, played by very physically tough men. The majority probably are not going to be too sympathetic to another player complaining that he is being bullied. Let's be honest, most of these guys have been "the man" at most every school and social setting they have attended. It comes with the prestige of being a star athlete, and the worst player in the NFL was still the star player on every team and at every school growing up. The vast majority of these guys have probably never faced this type bullying, beyond hazing....which I don't care what anyone says, is not the same. So when this man was picked on, he buckled. NFL players aren't going to rally behind another player who ran from a confrontation like this.

I have nothing but sympathy for children who have to endure being bullied, but this is a grown man, with an adult perspective and judgement on what is being done to him. He could have responded in a number of ways, but he chose the response that is the antithesis of how many would judge as the response of a "strong man". You may disagree, but I'll be surprised if many football player do.

For children, I still think the best advice, and what I will tell my son someday and is the same as my dad told me:

"The first time someone picks on you, and I'm not talking about jokes, you will know the difference, bust them is their ******* jaw. Whether you win the fight or lose it, they probably will not pick you to try to bully again. If they are really stupid and do try. Do the exact same thing again the very next time."

I had to do this twice (never the second time), and was beaten up in one of those fights, but the old man was right as rain. I never felt bullied at any time in school. I hope and truly pray that my children never have to go through that sort of thing in school. It's awful. I hear about these poor kids that have killed themselves as a result of relentless bullying and it leaves you speechless, but an adult is much better equipped to deal with a bully than a child. Martin could not have handled this in a much poorer fashion. **** Incognito, dude is a complete *******, but Martin and the Dolphins organization share some blame in this fiasco as well.

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Of course Incognito is a giant piece of ****, and of course Martin should have been able to go to work without having to deal with stuff like this, but I do agree to some extent that this Martin dude is a mirror image of our increasingly goofy and soft society. Have some self respect and ******* stand up for yourself. You don't have to throw punches to fight back.

Had Jonathan Martin told everyone to **** off and go to work and showed up to team workouts, nobody would have ever suggested that he "needs to be toughened up." I'm not even old and I already see a massive shift in the mental landscape of younger generations. You quit and went home because people were making fun of you? What the **** is wrong with you? If someone talks **** to you, either ignore it or tell them to kiss your *** and then go do your job. Don't cower in fear and run away because some overgrown racist jerkoff is leaving you moronic voicemails.

silentbob1272 likes this

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Not all tough guys are bullies or support intimidation tactics. Not all tough guys think violence is the answer to every problem. In fact, it takes a tougher than tough type of dude not to resort to violence sometimes

Not surprising you've never known any real tough guys, they don't hang with MB frauds wink.png

dude went from private school to auburen "yuppy rednecks)to law school. All he's seen is stereotypes and words.

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da fuq

If you've ever been in a locker room, you wouldn't find this to be such a surprising statement.

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You're wrong. These guys get paid millions to play ball 16 regular season games a season.

Soldiers in Afghanistan have a hostile work environment too. But they do their job, and they are getting paid a fraction of what these players are making.

And if you don't think Martin's absence hurt the team...they had to put Clabo back at RT with Martin out. OUCH!!!

In this context, hostile work environment is not the every day realities of the job, but the situation created when a co-worker or boss harasses or otherwise makes employment uncomfortable for an employee. Soldiers sign up for the dangers or armed service, just as football players sign up for the dangers of playing a violent game. However, soldiers and football players do not sign up for, and are not expected to just deal with, harassment from their co-workers or bosses. There are prohibitions against such conduct and procedures to deal with same. Soldiers especially are not supposed to deal with a work environment like that, it undermines their morality and the defense of the country. Soldiers do ****** up things to each other all the time, and they get the book thrown at them for it.

My point being, you're equivocating the dangers inherent to a job to inappropriate conduct by one's coworkers. They are not one in the same.

I agree with HM that he was not shown any loyalty by his teammates or coaches. They had to know something was going on. Apparently the problem is more pervasive in that locker room, reports are surfacing that there is dissension in that locker room because other young players have had to pay more than their share in social gatherings with vets. While he can't baby sit them 24/7, that's on Philbin to try and prevent things like that.

But to the extent that Martin is at fault, he's not totally blameless. He should have approached the coaching staff (which he may not have felt comfortable doing given their desire to "toughen him up"), or the NFLPA, or even just an attorney who could have helped him address the situation. He shouldn't have just gone AWOL.

Of course Incognito is a giant piece of ****, and of course Martin should have been able to go to work without having to deal with stuff like this, but I do agree to some extent that this Martin dude is a mirror image of our increasingly goofy and soft society. Have some self respect and ******* stand up for yourself. You don't have to throw punches to fight back.

Had Jonathan Martin told everyone to **** off and go to work and showed up to team workouts, nobody would have ever suggested that he "needs to be toughened up." I'm not even old and I already see a massive shift in the mental landscape of younger generations. You quit and went home because people were making fun of you? What the **** is wrong with you? If someone talks **** to you, either ignore it or tell them to kiss your *** and then go do your job. Don't cower in fear and run away because some overgrown racist jerkoff is leaving you moronic voicemails.

Yeah, to the extent any of my posts have appeared to condone Martin jumping ship, I don't think he handled this correctly either. I don't think he should have had to get in a fist fight in Incognito, but he could have handled it differently.

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dude went from private school to auburen "yuppy rednecks)to law school. All he's seen is stereotypes and words.

Auburn didn't have a law school, how many ******* times have I told you this ed. I went to Auburn for undergrad, then elsewhere for law school. Get that through your thick skull.

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Martin should come on over to the Falcons. I assure you we have nothing but a bunch of pansies on our offensive line so he would fit right in.

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So: an employer encourages an employee to 'toughen up' another employee. That 'toughening' happens via racial epithets, threats of violence, and endless harrassment, so the employee receiving those threats should have just beaten everyone up, lest he be called a 'p---y'?

That's really, really dumb.

AREA 51 likes this

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Wonder how this conversation would go had Martin walked in the team facility and shot Incognito or a couple of other people as well. Maybe, he caught himself and walked away to keep from forcing some families to arrange funerals.

Saying he should have stood up for himself is cool and all but how do you control the extent for which one stands up for themselves. If he truly felt danger, would he be justified to bust a cap in someone's azz.

I think he did the right thing. Sometimes, you don't take things into your own hands.

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I think he did the right thing. Sometimes, you don't take things into your own hands.

Abandoning his team and going to the media was not the right way to handle it. I think just about every NFL player would agree with that.

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I think he did the right thing. Sometimes, you don't take things into your own hands.

I don't think there's anything he could have done that wouldn't have been met with criticism, honestly. And that's part of what sucks about the whole thing.

Abandoning his team and going to the media was not the right way to handle it. I think just about every NFL player would agree with that.

Martin did not go to the media.
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So: an employer encourages an employee to 'toughen up' another employee. That 'toughening' happens via racial epithets, threats of violence, and endless harrassment, so the employee receiving those threats should have just beaten everyone up, lest he be called a 'p---y'?

That's really, really dumb.

Incognito is a ***** and should be permanently suspended from the NFL but Martin is ******* massive and needed to man up a bit

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Incognito is a ***** and should be permanently suspended from the NFL but Martin is ******* massive and needed to man up a bit

And do what? Get suspended for fighting? Get sued by Incognito? Go to the coach and get ostracized for 'tattling'?

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Abandoning his team and going to the media was not the right way to handle it. I think just about every NFL player would agree with that.

So he's expected to stick by people and concern himself with people who showed no regard for him. The "team" is not just one person it's every player and when one is under attack they are all under attack. Incognito is on leadership team for organization. What avenue did he have?...especially if a coach put Incognito up to it? I'm still leaning toward busting a cap in his azz, but then that would have been cowardly too.

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So he's expected to stick by people and concern himself with people who showed no regard for him.

Yes. That's what he's being paid $4,784,267 to do. Give me that kind of money and I'd be happy to put up with Incognito's BS.

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And do what? Get suspended for fighting? Get sued by Incognito? Go to the coach and get ostracized for 'tattling'?

If he honestly feared for his life then he should have called the cops or whipped his ***. If he didn't fear for his life then bailing on the team is a punk move.

silentbob1272 likes this

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And do what? Get suspended for fighting? Get sued by Incognito? Go to the coach and get ostracized for 'tattling'?

You're a football fan right? Do you have any clue how many fights happen during any given team's training camp? That statement was asinine, as was the one about getting sued by Incognito. That dude is a lot of things, but NOTHING in his history lends any credence to that being how he would handle getting into a fight.

The being ostracized for tattling on the other hand would almost certainly have happened. As it should have, again these are grown men.

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If he honestly feared for his life then he should have called the cops or whipped his ***. If he didn't fear for his life then bailing on the team is a punk move.

And then be permanently ostracized when Incognito said it was all just a big joke.

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You're a football fan right? Do you have any clue how many fights happen during any given team's training camp? That statement was asinine, as was the one about getting sued by Incognito. That dude is a lot of things, but NOTHING in his history lends any credence to that being how he would handle getting into a fight.

The being ostracized for tattling on the other hand would almost certainly have happened. As it should have, again these are grown men.

Yes, they do happen. That doesn't mean that forcing a fight in a peaceful situation is the right thing to do.

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Football players assume the risk of injury anytime they step onto the game or practice field, so Martin could likely escape legal liability if he started a fight on the field. But to the extent anyone is implying he should have sucker punched him in the locker room or parking lot, that lands him in hot water both civilly and criminally.

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