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Nfl On Fox: What Happened Between Jonathan Martin And Richie Incognito?

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Incognito is known to be a complete jerk, and a dirty player. I certainly identify with Martin's side of things a lot more than Incognito's. I don't think we need to admonish someone for not being able to deal with over a year's worth of abuse like this.

It seems like Martin has some emotional problems, and that's why Incognito zeroed in on him for the abuse. That ain't cool, and it doesn't make Martin any less of a man.

It clearly would have been better had they been able to handle it in house, and I'm surprised the other OL dudes never said a word about it.

I think Incognito can apologize, take a few anger management or sensitivity classes, and continue to play, and I think Martin can probably get over it, in time.

Summerbunny likes this

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I find it hard to believe that the rookie hazing is such a "hands off" thing by the NFL. Of course, Martin was in his 2nd season so he is not even a rookie.

To me, there are two aspects to this:

1) the Voicemails - those are disgusting in nature and indefensible - its pure harrassement. I see no difference in those phone calls and obscene calls that were made to my wife - we had a guy locked up for it and he ended up convicted and we have a restraining order against the guy.

2) the $15,000 Vegas Tab - I don't care how much a guy makes, no one should ever be forced to pick up tabs like this from some other group of people as some kind of initiation. I've got no problem with the rooks carrying the veteran players shoulder pads and a few silly things like that - get Chick-fil-A breakfast or Pop-eye's for lunch - but $5,000+ in dinner/drink/trip tabs - that is ridiculous.

This is "Player-on-Player" conduct and the NFLPA should really be the ones to enforce this matter - not the NFL. Obviously it comes under the purview of both but the NFLPA should be leading the way on this - and they have basically fostered a culture that makes this acceptable.

holymoses likes this

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I find it hard to believe that the rookie hazing is such a "hands off" thing by the NFL. Of course, Martin was in his 2nd season so he is not even a rookie.

To me, there are two aspects to this:

1) the Voicemails - those are disgusting in nature and indefensible - its pure harrassement. I see no difference in those phone calls and obscene calls that were made to my wife - we had a guy locked up for it and he ended up convicted and we have a restraining order against the guy.

2) the $15,000 Vegas Tab - I don't care how much a guy makes, no one should ever be forced to pick up tabs like this from some other group of people as some kind of initiation. I've got no problem with the rooks carrying the veteran players shoulder pads and a few silly things like that - get Chick-fil-A breakfast or Pop-eye's for lunch - but $5,000+ in dinner/drink/trip tabs - that is ridiculous.

This is "Player-on-Player" conduct and the NFLPA should really be the ones to enforce this matter - not the NFL. Obviously it comes under the purview of both but the NFLPA should be leading the way on this - and they have basically fostered a culture that makes this acceptable.

Herr Fuehrer Gooddell routinely does things arguably without the authority to do so, but justifies them on broad readings of the NFL rules (with the help of league attorneys). He'll take charge of this, the NFL already has enough of an image crisis.

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Herr Fuehrer Gooddell routinely does things arguably without the authority to do so, but justifies them on broad readings of the NFL rules (with the help of league attorneys). He'll take charge of this, the NFL already has enough of an image crisis.

agreed, but where has the NFLPA been in all of this? While I am sure what has happened to Jonathan Martin is somewhat of an outlier, especially/hopefully the racist stuff, but I know the financial punishment doled out has been an ongoing thing. I suppose to some degree its voluntary but still.

It seems like the NFLPA only protects players from Management and not from each other.

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agreed, but where has the NFLPA been in all of this? While I am sure what has happened to Jonathan Martin is somewhat of an outlier, especially/hopefully the racist stuff, but I know the financial punishment doled out has been an ongoing thing. I suppose to some degree its voluntary but still.

It seems like the NFLPA only protects players from Management and not from each other.

Right or wrong, or somewhere in between, that's the job of a union. I don't know what their exact involvement in this will be, and whether or not they'll be able to wear two hats at once and investigate the incident while simultaneously making sure Incognito is given a fair shake.

g-dawg likes this

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People stand up

Q: Should Jonathan Martin have "stood up" to Richie Incognito?

A: Yes

Q: Do you or I know all the details as to why Martin did not stand up to Incognito?

A: No

Q: Could Martin have feared some type of retribution of which you and I are not contemplating would happen?

A: Yes

Q: Could Martin have feared more than just getting beat up?

A: Yes

I don't know what Incognito is capable of - but the dude has a very bad history as a human being. He could be capable of much worse than just being an arsshole.

The Legendary SB and AREA 51 like this

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Philly players to this very day still pal around with a guy who said he would beat every n-word in there to a black security guard at a country concert.

I have to go back to this:

Listen to the commentators. About a 'CLASSLESS' act like Zinedine wouldnt be a berber once the match was over. Like he should of just took the racist abuse, no wonder NFL athletes just sat back and watched a teammate get destroyed by another. Its the culture of trying to appear classy over what is right. Vick talking about forgiveness, but he would never show the same for a dog who loved him.

I don't see it that way at all in Philly. They go out and play football with him but that situation was very different in my eyes. You think Lesean McCoy and everyone else on that team was aware of that type of behavior before the video came out? You think they associate with him outside of practice and games when they have to? I don't.

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Well, I give up. I have twice posted a thread about this on the TATF board, only to have it deleted for some reason. It was not exactly like this thread. I was basically saying that I do not want the Falcons to ever consider picking up Incognito. I have no idea why the heck it keeps getting removed.

Now, as adults who are dealing with adults, no one should ever have to even deal with this kind of stuff. I do not care anything about how Martin should have handled it. He should not have had to deal with it at all, period. Incognito is the bad guy here, so I do not like anybody trying to turn it around on Martin. America does too much of this reverse the blame crap as it is.

g-dawg and holymoses like this

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Well, I give up. I have twice posted a thread about this on the TATF board, only to have it deleted for some reason. It was not exactly like this thread. I was basically saying that I do not want the Falcons to ever consider picking up Incognito. I have no idea why the heck it keeps getting removed.

Now, as adults who are dealing with adults, no one should ever have to even deal with this kind of stuff. I do not care anything about how Martin should have handled it. He should not have had to deal with it at all, period. Incognito is the bad guy here, so I do not like anybody trying to turn it around on Martin. America does too much of this reverse the blame crap as it is.

You got bankerbird'd. He's drunk with power.

Billy Ocean likes this

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Q: Should Jonathan Martin have "stood up" to Richie Incognito?

A: Yes

Q: Do you or I know all the details as to why Martin did not stand up to Incognito?

A: No

Q: Could Martin have feared some type of retribution of which you and I are not contemplating would happen?

A: Yes

Q: Could Martin have feared more than just getting beat up?

A: Yes

I don't know what Incognito is capable of - but the dude has a very bad history as a human being. He could be capable of much worse than just being an arsshole.

I don't see how you can ask all of those things, but still think he 'should have stood up to him'.

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Well, I give up. I have twice posted a thread about this on the TATF board, only to have it deleted for some reason. It was not exactly like this thread. I was basically saying that I do not want the Falcons to ever consider picking up Incognito. I have no idea why the heck it keeps getting removed.

Now, as adults who are dealing with adults, no one should ever have to even deal with this kind of stuff. I do not care anything about how Martin should have handled it. He should not have had to deal with it at all, period. Incognito is the bad guy here, so I do not like anybody trying to turn it around on Martin. America does too much of this reverse the blame crap as it is.

Getting kind of ridiculous up there. (TATF) I think the losing is getting to everyone...even the mods.

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I don't see how you can ask all of those things, but still think he 'should have stood up to him'.

I don't know if he should have or not - I know - from experience from being a kid that got picked on in middle school - that not standing up makes things harder and usually worse.

I agree w/ you though that Martin did nothing wrong and should never have been put in a position where he would have had to stand up for himself - and sometimes it could end up being worse if you do stand up for yourself as you never know what the bully will do next.

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Philly players to this very day still pal around with a guy who said he would beat every n-word in there to a black security guard at a country concert.

I will try to explain this, even though I know someone will use my words out of context to change the meaning. Anyways, Riley Cooper used a bad choice of words, and he obviously has some bigotry in him, but his words were not aimed at anyone specific and he did not turn that into any kind criminal action. What he thinks is not a crime, nor should it be.

Now, in the Incognito/ Martin case, this was racial bigotry in conjunction with harrassing and threatening behavior. This is not acceptable under any circumstances and not something anyone should have to put up with. Being a bigot is Incognito's problem, but once he started uttering racial slurs at a teammate and harassed him and threatened him, it was no longer just thoughts or just using inappropriate words, it was bullying, terroristic, and probably criminal. This explanation may not satisfy you, but it is the best I can do. If the facts of the story hold, I hope he is kicked out of the NFL.

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I'm pleasantly surprised at how everyone is responding to this. When the story first broke I was expecting former players turned commentators to call Martin "soft", but everyone seems to be 100% behind Martin and against Incognito.

What is very interesting in this whole sordid mess is that Dolphin teammates are coming out saying good things about Incognito, but are very quiet on Jonathan Martin.

Johnny_Redskin and holymoses like this

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What is very interesting in this whole sordid mess is that Dolphin teammates are coming out saying good things about Incognito, but are very quiet on Jonathan Martin.

Maybe there is more to the story, or more likely players just do not want to publicly get involved, because they may fear some kind of retribution if they say anything. To me, it does not matter. The phone messages alone are all anyone should need to know. If they are verified as real, then there is just not much more to say.

Those who say Martin should have handled this differently, should also concede, that if Incognito had a problem with Martin, he should have handled it like an adult, not like some cowardly bully.

defcon4 likes this

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And for the record I think both Incognito and Martin are in the wrong.

Incognito is a piece of s*** and should be kicked out of the NFL

Martin is thin skinned, abandoned his team when they needed him, and lacks some testicular fortitude for a man his size.

They both suck. Glad neither of these guys are Atlanta Falcons.

WTF?!?! "Abandoned his team when they needed him." . . . This is a professional athlete working in a hostile work environment. Team loyalty is built on . . .WHAT?

Oh Yeah. . . . It's built on TEAM LOYALTY. So what in BLAZES kind of loyalty did the team show Martin? Who stuck up for him? Who did anything to stop the abuse? Of COURSE team loyalty is essential for the success of a football team. But it must be cultivated.

Frankly, I think Martin would be a chump to have any loyalty for a team that let cr#p like this go on.

Think about that, SB . . . and tell me I'm wrong!

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Maybe there is more to the story, or more likely players just do not want to publicly get involved, because they may fear some kind of retribution if they say anything. To me, it does not matter. The phone messages alone are all anyone should need to know. If they are verified as real, then there is just not much more to say.

Those who say Martin should have handled this differently, should also concede, that if Incognito had a problem with Martin, he should have handled it like an adult, not like some cowardly bully.

The "more to the story" could be cowardly bully is more of a convenient fall guy.

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The "more to the story," per twitter just now, is that dolphins coaches told Incognito to "toughen up" Martin after he missed voluntary workouts as a rookie. Ruh roh.

This could get really ugly if its true.

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