70 replies to this topic

[Flying Falcon]

Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 to deny the team's bounty program.
The declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches. All four players appealed their suspensions on Monday.

http://sports.yahoo....--joe-vitt.html

[hjerry]

In before the Saints trolls come in and try to defend this.

[pzummo]

I don't think any players were suspended for "following orders".  If that were the case, 22 to 27 players would have been suspended.  I believe the NFL only suspended players that contributed and/or funded the program to another level.

I recall one claim that Vilma offered $10k to any player that KO'd Favre.  That's not "following orders".  That's taking initiative.

[HASHBROWN3]

Is Vitt going to resign, or will he be fired?  Is Benson a man of honor or not?

[Flying Falcon]

But now, do you all see how this is all playing out?  The NFL is being sued by former players for concussions.  The NFLPA is fighting on behalf of the suspended players and now one of the players that the NFLPA is fighting on behalf is telling the world that he was told to lie about the reason he got suspended.

This is better than a mystery book.

[hjerry]

HASHBROWN3, on 07 May 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Is Vitt going to resign, or will he be fired?  Is Benson a man of honor or not?

We'll supposedly he suspended his granddaughter b/c she wanted to fire Loomis so...

[HASHBROWN3]

The gift that keeps on giving

[hjerry]

I'm anxiously awaiting our Saints trolls to come in and say that Hargrove did it b/c he was bitter against the Saints.

[clownorg]

Won't let me Cut/paste but this is the actual declaration from Hargrove...

http://sports.yahoo....ty-scandal.html

[Dusty]

Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 to deny the team's bounty program.

The declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches. All four players appealed their suspensions on Monday.

[ Related: Anthony Hargrove's declaration regarding the Saints' bounty scandal ]

"I don't know what the union was thinking when it provided the declaration," a source said. The source said the declaration only served as proof of Hargrove's involvement and backed up the contention by the league that other players were involved.

In the declaration, which was signed by Hargrove on April 13, Hargrove said that on approximately Feb. 24, 2010, he was called into a meeting with Williams. Hargrove said Williams initially talked about football, saying that Hargrove would get a chance to start at defensive end in the following season.

According to NFL spokesman Greg Aiello, the league did not request the declaration from the player's association. A message to the NFLPA was not returned.

[ Dan Wetzel: NFLPA should condemn the Saints' bounty system at the same time it pursues a grievance claim ]

The conversation then turned to the bounty program after Vitt joined in. Williams said the NFL was going to come to the Saints facility to ask about the bounty program. Williams also said "some people thought that [Hargrove] had told Vikings player Jimmy Kennedy about the existence of a 'bounty' on Brett Favre because" Hargrove was friends with Kennedy.

Hargrove said Williams then said he was going to deny the existence of any bounty system, and that both Williams and Vitt instructed Hargrove to do the same. Williams also said: "Those [expletives at the NFL] have been trying to get me for years" and if all the Saints "stay on the same page, this will blow over."

Hargrove said he met with an NFL security officer in March 2010 and did as instructed by Williams and Vitt, denying any knowledge of a bounty program.

Hargrove said he never had any further discussion about the incident until March 2012, when NFLPA attorneys said the NFL would likely want to talk to Hargrove again.

Edited by Dusty, 07 May 2012 - 03:21 PM.

[Dusty]

This off-season is better than "Falcon Crest", "Knotts Landing", "Dynasty" and "Barnaby Jones" all rolled into one!

[pox 08]

But but..................  even though common sense says that there was a bounty program in place.....and it was strongly implied when Hargrove said that Vitt and GW asked him to lie and claim there wasn't a bounty program....    I'm sure some Saint fans  over on SR will try and claim "Well,  that doesn't prove anything,    not once did Hargrove come out and say that there was indeed a Bounty Program".

[Falcanuck]

But the NFL won't tell Brees what evidence they have so this whole thing must be some big conspiracy!!!!!

[paulitik]

pzummo, on 07 May 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

I don't think any players were suspended for "following orders".  If that were the case, 22 to 27 players would have been suspended.  I believe the NFL only suspended players that contributed and/or funded the program to another level.

I recall one claim that Vilma offered $10k to any player that KO'd Favre.  That's not "following orders".  That's taking initiative.

I agree to a point, but I think it's more along the lines that a bunch of players sang and cooperated, and the guys that didn't by lying, stalling, or withholding information are getting the brunt of the punishment.

[freebird310]

[Falcanuck]

80burgers, on 07 May 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Now for what Hargrove's declaration doesn't say. At no point in the declaration does Hargrove admit to any knowledge of the existence of a bounty program. Indeed, at no point does Hargrove claim that he was told to say anything different from what he would have otherwise said, without coaching.

In other words, Hargrove never says he was told to lie. Instead, he says he was told what to say, without commenting on whether he believed what he was told to say to be the truth.

And so, when the NFL said last week in the announcement of the suspensions of Hargrove and three other players that the declaration "established not only the existence of the program with the Saints, but also that he knew about and participated in it," that statement was blatantly incorrect. And when "independent" counsel Mary Jo White explained in a conference call last week that the "thrust" of the declaration was Hargrove's acknowledgment of "the nature of the program and his participation in it," that was blatantly incorrect, too.

It may simply be semantics, given that Williams and Vitt apparently confessed to the existence of a bounty program — which necessarily means that Hargrove had lied. But in his declaration he never says that he lied, and he never admits that the bounty program existed. The flaw in the NFL's comments about the Hargrove declaration is subtle, but significant. The plain language of the Hargrove declaration as compared to the NFL's characterization of it shows that the league is playing a little fast and loose with the facts. Which makes it even more critical that the league stop spoon-feeding the NFLPA and the media characterizations and summaries and conclusions, and that it start coughing up the raw data on which the characterizations and summaries and conclusions were based.

Back when I was practicing law, I'd periodically explain to a jury that, upon encountering a piece of rancid meat in a pot of beef stew, the reaction isn't to keep eating but to dump it all out. Though the league's mischaracterization of Hargrove's declaration may not justify ignoring the full weight of the bounty probe, it means that, at a minimum, someone must have an opportunity to scrutinize all facts, apart from the skewed, self-serving filter the league has applied when talking about the case.

There you go!  

"Back when I was practicing law"

I'm glad that's in the past...

Edited by Falcanuck, 07 May 2012 - 03:45 PM.

[Dusty]

80burgers, on 07 May 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Now for what Hargrove's declaration doesn't say. At no point in the declaration does Hargrove admit to any knowledge of the existence of a bounty program. Indeed, at no point does Hargrove claim that he was told to say anything different from what he would have otherwise said, without coaching.

In other words, Hargrove never says he was told to lie. Instead, he says he was told what to say, without commenting on whether he believed what he was told to say to be the truth.

And so, when the NFL said last week in the announcement of the suspensions of Hargrove and three other players that the declaration "established not only the existence of the program with the Saints, but also that he knew about and participated in it," that statement was blatantly incorrect. And when "independent" counsel Mary Jo White explained in a conference call last week that the "thrust" of the declaration was Hargrove's acknowledgment of "the nature of the program and his participation in it," that was blatantly incorrect, too.

It may simply be semantics, given that Williams and Vitt apparently confessed to the existence of a bounty program — which necessarily means that Hargrove had lied. But in his declaration he never says that he lied, and he never admits that the bounty program existed. The flaw in the NFL's comments about the Hargrove declaration is subtle, but significant. The plain language of the Hargrove declaration as compared to the NFL's characterization of it shows that the league is playing a little fast and loose with the facts. Which makes it even more critical that the league stop spoon-feeding the NFLPA and the media characterizations and summaries and conclusions, and that it start coughing up the raw data on which the characterizations and summaries and conclusions were based.

Back when I was practicing law, I'd periodically explain to a jury that, upon encountering a piece of rancid meat in a pot of beef stew, the reaction isn't to keep eating but to dump it all out. Though the league's mischaracterization of Hargrove's declaration may not justify ignoring the full weight of the bounty probe, it means that, at a minimum, someone must have an opportunity to scrutinize all facts, apart from the skewed, self-serving filter the league has applied when talking about the case.

There you go!  

BOOOOOoooooOOOooooOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Falcanuck]

Btw pox 08 called it....

[Falconguy]

80burgers, on 07 May 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Now for what Hargrove's declaration doesn't say. At no point in the declaration does Hargrove admit to any knowledge of the existence of a bounty program. Indeed, at no point does Hargrove claim that he was told to say anything different from what he would have otherwise said, without coaching.

In other words, Hargrove never says he was told to lie. Instead, he says he was told what to say, without commenting on whether he believed what he was told to say to be the truth.

And so, when the NFL said last week in the announcement of the suspensions of Hargrove and three other players that the declaration "established not only the existence of the program with the Saints, but also that he knew about and participated in it," that statement was blatantly incorrect. And when "independent" counsel Mary Jo White explained in a conference call last week that the "thrust" of the declaration was Hargrove's acknowledgment of "the nature of the program and his participation in it," that was blatantly incorrect, too.

It may simply be semantics, given that Williams and Vitt apparently confessed to the existence of a bounty program — which necessarily means that Hargrove had lied. But in his declaration he never says that he lied, and he never admits that the bounty program existed. The flaw in the NFL's comments about the Hargrove declaration is subtle, but significant. The plain language of the Hargrove declaration as compared to the NFL's characterization of it shows that the league is playing a little fast and loose with the facts. Which makes it even more critical that the league stop spoon-feeding the NFLPA and the media characterizations and summaries and conclusions, and that it start coughing up the raw data on which the characterizations and summaries and conclusions were based.

Back when I was practicing law, I'd periodically explain to a jury that, upon encountering a piece of rancid meat in a pot of beef stew, the reaction isn't to keep eating but to dump it all out. Though the league's mischaracterization of Hargrove's declaration may not justify ignoring the full weight of the bounty probe, it means that, at a minimum, someone must have an opportunity to scrutinize all facts, apart from the skewed, self-serving filter the league has applied when talking about the case.

There you go!  

Nobody plays the victim better then the taint's

[big_D]

They're not going to change either. What else do you expect from those sorry baaasterddss.