138 replies to this topic

[muskokas finest ©]

UKFalc, on 06 April 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

The Golden rule of the draft is, "if there is a franchsie Qb available and you don't have one, you take him".

DT's rarely get drafting in the top 5-10, because they are not a premiere position. Why anyone would even consider drafting a DT over a Qb is beyond words to me. Even if Dorsey plays at a HoF level, he makes less impact that Ryan.

In hindsight, we shake our heads at it, but at the time, Dorsey was looked at much like Ndamukong Suh.  We had 3 2nds that year and it was felt that Henne, Flacco and Brohm were in reach of those picks.  JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young and Matt Leinart had made some a little jumpy about investing $75 million on a QB they weren't dead sure about.

[MrJay]

whether u guys think so or not, i agree with this post. TD is not exactly the best, but he is proven, and he puts every team he's managed in a position to win! 4 straight winning seasons is nothing to complain about. Be glad we arent Jax fans or wed really be complaining

[primetime]

muskokas finest, on 06 April 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

I disagree.  While it is hard to argue with the team's results under Dimitroff, not enough credit is given to previous management, who had left the new GM a full cupboard of quality draft picks and a decent core of talent.  I would say Dimitroff has been no better than average at optimizing the choices he's had to work with.

wow - what a stupid statement. Lets credit previous management for giving TD plenty of draft picks (high picks from crap seasons and extra picks from trades becuase we drafted poor quality guys) and a decent core of talent (pretty sure we reshaped the whole team in the next 2-3 years bar a couple of gems like babs, white, blalock etc).

people forget how much of a joke this franchise was after petrino - all TD has done is turn a franchise around from the laughing stock of the NFL (im talking right after the whole vick fiasco) to a perennial playoff team. Next hump is to win a play-off but id argue thats the coaches role and not the GM. FTR the only real issue i have with TD is the lack of investment in the O-Line going into this season - i think it could come back to bite him on the ***.That being said TD is building for the future and cap mananegent is a huge factor here. I for one am prepared to cut the guy some slack and ride with him a bit longer based on the turnaround he has given us.

[muskokas finest ©]

primetime, on 06 April 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

wow - what a stupid statement. Lets credit previous management for giving TD plenty of draft picks (high picks from crap seasons and extra picks from trades becuase we drafted poor quality guys) and a decent core of talent (pretty sure we reshaped the whole team in the next 2-3 years bar a couple of gems like babs, white, blalock etc).

Yeah let's credit Dimitroff for turning 3 quality picks into a bust and a comp pick.  How many guys from Dimitroff's efforts are key to the O-line?  That'd be none.  Blalock, Clabo and McClure, plus 2 openings Dimitroff hasn't filled.  D-line? 2 starters from the McKay era, a free agent and a few TD rotational players.  RB - free agent, FB - free agent, TE - trade.  That TD is a he!! of a drafter.

[JulioisCoolio]

Again, nobody saying that TD is a bad drafter is comparing him to ANYBODY other than their own standards.

I seen this FFS1970 clown say that Loomis is a better drafter than TD because he found Jimmy Graham and Nicks late in the draft. So freakin what? Loomis hasn't done jack with his high picks.

2007 - Robert Meachem - #3 receiver that is no longer on the team.
2008 - Sedrick Ellis - solid starter, nothing spectacular especially for #7 overall.
2009 - Malcom Jenkins - They are STILL looking for CBs. Dude is average.
2010 - Patrick Robinson - Doesn't even start on a team with terrible CBs.
2011 - Cameron Jordan - jury still out. Nothing overly impressive year #1.
2011 - Mark Ingram - 2 1st rounders for a 3rd down RB. Yea, great decision there.

Now compare that with

Matt Ryan
Julio Jones
Sean Weatherspoon

That's 3 'franchise' type players in the 1st round since 2008. The Saints have zero since 2007.

[kiwifalcon]

vabchbirdlover, on 06 April 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Another post to prop up our fledgling GM, who despite initial success has fallen upon tough sledding as of late. Numbers? Break down the nbrs if you would sir, by telling me the nbr of draftees since his regime began that have been effective starters.Relaizing that drafting NFL platers is not an exact science, but to hear some of y'all tell it, TD is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Personally, with a few exceptions, Ryan, Spoon, Lofton Julio, most have at best, been depth or straight out disappointments. Not really knocking it out of the park in my opinion. Yeah, yeah, 43-21, But  didn't  MM/BVG/Budeaux(sp) have a hand in that as well? Were are they now?

Screw the filter, quality players over choir boys.

Dimitroff needs really show me something this year before I'm back on board with him.

I agree with your post but how does TD make a hit in the draft when he isn't picking until 55.

To me this is the price we have to pay for the JJ trade and while I don't have a problem with this all I'm expecting in this draft are depth picks,.If we wanted a difference maker or 2 FA had to be the place this year.I just don't see with the draft picks we have this year how TD can make some noise unless he mortgages the whole lot to get to the end of the first or top of the 2nd which won't happen.

[muskokas finest ©]

JulioisCoolio, on 06 April 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

Again, nobody saying that TD is a bad drafter is comparing him to ANYBODY other than their own standards.

I seen this FFS1970 clown say that Loomis is a better drafter than TD because he found Jimmy Graham and Nicks late in the draft. So freakin what? Loomis hasn't done jack with his high picks.

2007 - Robert Meachem - #3 receiver that is no longer on the team.
2008 - Sedrick Ellis - solid starter, nothing spectacular especially for #7 overall.
2009 - Malcom Jenkins - They are STILL looking for CBs. Dude is average.
2010 - Patrick Robinson - Doesn't even start on a team with terrible CBs.
2011 - Cameron Jordan - jury still out. Nothing overly impressive year #1.
2011 - Mark Ingram - 2 1st rounders for a 3rd down RB. Yea, great decision there.

Now compare that with

Matt Ryan
Julio Jones
Sean Weatherspoon

That's 3 'franchise' type players in the 1st round since 2008. The Saints have zero since 2007.

I'm not impressed with Loomis either, but #3 overall and #6 overall should be way better than # 7 and #14 and Weatherspoon was really the only choice TD had in that 2010 spot.  Ingram was a plain brain f@rt.  Nicks and Graham make up for a lot of irrelevant picks and are more impactful than anything outside the 1st round that Dimitroff has chosen.

[egoprime II]

m2Falcons, on 06 April 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

And could be that a lot of the non-high round picks have been "stockpiled" without letting them play a lot early on.... why??
because they are able to adjust to the NFL game mentally, mature psychologically, and develop physically to play at higher and consistent levels.  this has the added benefit of transitioning them from cheap rookie contracts to generally much lower expense Vet contracts while ALSO sliding them through the FA gauntlet basically as an unknown (no other team is keen enough on them to raid us for them) so we get to re-sign them cheaply and THEN reap the reward with a long-term quality starter for less money.
the team keeps stocking depth (ala, GB, Pitts, NYG, Pats) and we have guys READY when "we" decide to let them move on due to age, performance, money, or all three.

Th difference between us and say Pittsburgh is, the Steelers almost always have a quality starter in place when they draft his replacement.  Then when the starter gets to the end of his contract more often than not he is let go, by then his replacement is ready to replace him.  The Steelers are the best team in the NFL when it comes to finding and developing young players.

The scenario you describe, basically red-shirting players or not playing them all that much so thier second contract is cheaper, it doesn't work.  If a player outperforms his contract, he has an agent who will let the team know its time to renegotiate the player's contract to reflect the player's true production and worth.  

Our trend so far is, most of TD's picks underform or merely perform at the level of thier contract.  We are going to end up with average starters who more than likely will bring us average results.

I dread losing Abe and Gonzalez and McClure and Babs and White because we have no one behind any of them who can take thier place.

[JulioisCoolio]

egoprime II, on 06 April 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

Th difference between us and say Pittsburgh is, the Steelers almost always have a quality starter in place when they draft his replacement.  Then when the starter gets to the end of his contract more often than not he is let go, by then his replacement is ready to replace him.  The Steelers are the best team in the NFL when it comes to finding and developing young players.

The scenario you describe, basically red-shirting players or not playing them all that much so thier second contract is cheaper, it doesn't work.  If a player outperforms his contract, he has an agent who will let the team know its time to renegotiate the player's contract to reflect the player's true production and worth.  

Our trend so far is, most of TD's picks underform or merely perform at the level of thier contract.  We are going to end up with average starters who more than likely will bring us average results.

I dread losing Abe and Gonzalez and McClure and Babs and White because we have no one behind any of them who can take thier place.

How do you know? Funny how all the unknown Steelers players are sure fire replacements, but the unknown players we have behind those guys can no way be replacements. No bias there or anything, right? You also just said we don't have anybody to take Whites spot, REALLY?

[egoprime II]

muskokas finest, on 06 April 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

That's a pretty big "if".  As of now, Biermann, a rotational DE, who was given an ample opportunity to take a starting job and couldn't, is the best of the lot.  Remember, even in that, DE was always a position of weakness where plenty of opportunity existed.

Remember when Jenkins was hurt, Douglas took his place for a few games?  Douglas was a comlete non factor, in fact he was dropping passes all the time.  Members of this board made all kinds of excuses for Douglas but ended up eagerly anticipating Jenkins return because no way he was worse than Douglas was as a starter.

[JulioisCoolio]

egoprime II, on 06 April 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Remember when Jenkins was hurt, Douglas took his place for a few games?  Douglas was a comlete non factor, in fact he was dropping passes all the time.  Members of this board made all kinds of excuses for Douglas but ended up eagerly anticipating Jenkins return because no way he was worse than Douglas was as a starter.

Yea, coming off of an ACL tear is an 'excuse'

[egoprime II]

JulioisCoolio, on 06 April 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

How do you know? Funny how all the unknown Steelers players are sure fire replacements, but the unknown players we have behind those guys can no way be replacements. No bias there or anything, right? You also just said we don't have anybody to take Whites spot, REALLY?

No bias at all.  The Steelers have shown time and time again they have a system that works, they replace thier veterans all the time.  They lose Pro Bowl type players who want tons of money, and replace them and still win games.  Even playoff games.

TD himself has already admitted he has not gotten replacements for any of our aging players.  Why re-sign McClure, Abe, and Gonzalez if Hawley, Sidbury and Palmer are ready to play?  Simple...they are NOT ready to play.   And no we have no replacement for White.  Unless you think Douglas will be that guy?  He could not even replace Jenkins.

JulioisCoolie, you show a very spiteful nature when you bash posters here without offering any reasonable argument or alternative.  I have seen your posts, you are capable of bringing knowledge and reason to the table, but many times you don't chose to.   I don't know why.  But  bashing posters who simply do not see things your way, I think its beneath you.

Edited by egoprime II, 07 April 2012 - 04:01 AM.

[ChickenBiscuit]

TD has gotten us Ryan, Lofton, Spoon, Julio, HD, Biermann (You can't tell me he's not productive for a 5th rounder with the amount of reps he gets in), Sidbury, Peters, William Moore, Franks, Owens and DeCoud.

Not only that, but he signed Dunta, who though didn't live up to his contract, was still a solid pickup. And he got us Ray Edwards, which in case you guys forgot, everyone was pushing for TD to sign. He's signed some big names, he's gotten solid pick ups, I think most of you are just writing these guys off before they even get a chance. Half of these guys weren't even on the field more than 8% of the time. Most rookies don't play well right out of the box unless their first rounders or maybe second rounders. Give them time to develop, Jesus, I swear this board can be so impatient sometimes.

I understand we're getting impatient and want a championship caliber team immediately, and we want our draft picks to pan out, but none of these guys were bad when they were in. Yeah, they haven't been mesmerizing but more than half of those guys haven't even been in for more than 8% of the time. Just give them time to improve, it's only been a year or two. The only "busts" he's drafted have been Baker and Jerry, everyone else has done fine. Under Nolan, most of these guys will do much better. And don't underestimate our OL under a brand new proven OL coach. If he listened to everything the people said on these boards he'd end up like Jeff Ireland. A worthless bum of a GM who plays franchise mode on Madden way too much.

Edited by ChickenBiscuit, 07 April 2012 - 02:11 AM.

[AEFalcon]

He is the GM during the best 4 year run in Falcon's history that I can recall.  I know many fault the team for lack of play-off success.....how quickly we forget the organizational chaos he inherited.

[muskokas finest ©]

AEFalcon, on 07 April 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

He is the GM during the best 4 year run in Falcon's history that I can recall.  I know many fault the team for lack of play-off success.....how quickly we forget the organizational chaos he inherited.

People forget that the chaos was largely emotional....the shock of what happened to Vick and Petrino, running out like an Irsay in the night.  There was still talent here and the Schaub trade, Hall trade and poor record gave Dimitroff enough picks to jump start his era.

[muskokas finest ©]

egoprime II, on 06 April 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Remember when Jenkins was hurt, Douglas took his place for a few games?  Douglas was a comlete non factor, in fact he was dropping passes all the time.  Members of this board made all kinds of excuses for Douglas but ended up eagerly anticipating Jenkins return because no way he was worse than Douglas was as a starter.

I think Douglas is a good #3....maybe a bit of a luxury even, high paid insurance, when you consider how many balls the big 3 will suck-up.

[AEFalcon]

muskokas finest, on 07 April 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

People forget that the chaos was largely emotional....the shock of what happened to Vick and Petrino, running out like an Irsay in the night.  There was still talent here and the Schaub trade, Hall trade and poor record gave Dimitroff enough picks to jump start his era.

Possible but I will stand by my statement that he has been as successful as any GM Atl has had that I can recall.  The man deserves a little credit. With the talent on the team in 2008 and draft picks on hand, I do not recall very many people at that time (except maybe a few diehard fans) predicted Atl would have success immediately, much less, maintain that success for years to come.  If fans do not  believe in the organization now, I find it hard that they believed in them back in Nov 2008. Too many people here are experts based all on the luxury of hind-sight.

[muskokas finest ©]

AEFalcon, on 07 April 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Possible but I will stand by my statement that he has been as successful as any GM Atl has had that I can recall.  The man deserves a little credit. With the talent on the team in 2008 and draft picks on hand, I do not recall very many people at that time (except maybe a few diehard fans) predicted Atl would have success immediately, much less, maintain that success for years to come.  If fans do not  believe in the organization now, I find it hard that they believed in them back in Nov 2008. Too many people here are experts based all on the luxury of hind-sight.

The man has got a tremendous amount of credit for the turnaround.   By Thomas' own actions and statements, he has caused fan's expectations to rise well above consecutive winning seasons/playoff appearances.

[AEFalcon]

Yet many on this board, with the luxury of hindsight at hand, including yourself seem to minimize the credit. That's your prerogative.  I'll stick to mine, we will agree to disagree.

[ChickenBiscuit]

I love how people beg TD to draft and sign people yet are the first to call our picks bust if they're not pro-bowlers by their first year.