97 replies to this topic

[Smiler11]

vel, on 05 March 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

If that hit was from any other team, this would be a non-issue. But because it's the Saints, it's now all of a sudden a dirty hit. That's the point Golic is making here. That hit wasn't dirty. This is based purely on hindsight. Nobody said it was dirty when it happened, but now that we know about the Bounty program, it all of a sudden is a dirty hit.

I agree, but I don't think the issue is whether it was a clean or a dirty hit, I think the issue is players being compensated for knocking a player out of a game.

[Masbinacci]

vel, on 05 March 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

If that hit was from any other team, this would be a non-issue. But because it's the Saints, it's now all of a sudden a dirty hit. That's the point Golic is making here. That hit wasn't dirty. This is based purely on hindsight. Nobody said it was dirty when it happened, but now that we know about the Bounty program, it all of a sudden is a dirty hit.

ummmm every talk person said that hit was dirty and how they were amazed it got no penalty, yet Lofton got a penalty.

If this was not the saints then they would be slaughtered. that is facts. again I point out a far less hit that Lofton did, and he got fined and was given a 15 yard penalty. while this hit on Kelly got NOTHING. so yes you are right if this was not the saints it would be different......it would mean a big fines, penalties, etc.

[didziii]

"I am Mike Golic.....I , I , i , i am a , I am fat annoying uh, uh I am  i, I like de de Saints, durrr. he he"

[Xx FaLcOhoLiC Xx]

Wasn't Mike Golic's brother on Saved By The Bell after the NFL? Haha

[vel]

Smiler11, on 05 March 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

I agree, but I don't think the issue is whether it was a clean or a dirty hit, I think the issue is players being compensated for knocking a player out of a game.

Yea, I agree. I am just saying many of the hits weren't illegal hits, which is what Golic is pointing out.

Fibonacci, on 05 March 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

ummmm every talk person said that hit was dirty and how they were amazed it got no penalty, yet Lofton got a penalty.

If this was not the saints then they would be slaughtered. that is facts. again I point out a far less hit that Lofton did, and he got fined and was given a 15 yard penalty. while this hit on Kelly got NOTHING. so yes you are right if this was not the saints it would be different......it would mean a big fines, penalties, etc.

Every talk person? Where are those quotes? And what Lofton hit are you talking about? The one on Colston? That was a clean hit I agree on that, he hit Colston like Gooddell wanted from what I thought but clearly we are wrong:

Quote

Falcons linebacker Curtis Lofton was fined $15,000 for unnecessary roughness for striking a defenseless player in the head and neck area, the league office confirmed to PFT today. That hit on Saints receiver Marques Colston had Gruden ripping the officials in the ESPN booth, and Pereira ripping Gruden for not knowing the rules. In the end, the league office says the penalty was the right call.

http://profootballta...aints-fined-5k/

But what rule did Jenkins break hitting Kelly? Lofton hit a defenseless player "in the head". I will agree that was a little love for New Orleans. But, although Kelly was defenseless, Jenkins hit him in the back. Should he have gone low and the back of his knees? That would have been dirty. Should he have went high and risk a concussion? That's all I am arguing. There was no right way to hit Kelly for you in this instance. I am not siding with the Saints, just the hit in general is not a good example in my opinion. That's my opinion and I guess we will just disagree.

[vel]

This may help clarify as well, from Mike Pereira, the head of officiating.

http://msn.foxsports...s-saints-122811

[Xx FaLcOhoLiC Xx]

I'm so sick of everyone finding a way to defend New Orleans. They get caught cheating and people make excuses on how they weren't doing anything wrong. If it were us that got caught, people would be slamming down on us hard as shittt but since it's the Katrina charity case, it's perfectly fine. Can't wait for the day that people wake up, stop feeling sorry for the Saints and face the facts that they are nothing more than a bunch of cheating pieces of shittt in a dirty, disgusting city!

[dirtybirdz10984]

Xx FaLcOhoLiC Xx, on 05 March 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

I'm so sick of everyone finding a way to defend New Orleans. They get caught cheating and people make excuses on how they weren't doing anything wrong. If it were us that got caught, people would be slamming down on us hard as shittt but since it's the Katrina charity case, it's perfectly fine. Can't wait for the day that people wake up, stop feeling sorry for the Saints and face the facts that they are nothing more than a bunch of cheating pieces of shittt in a dirty, disgusting city!

thank you! finally someone with some sense. i see no reason to make excuses for the Saints. or saying they arent the only ones. which its probably true but they deserve it for having a paper trail like a bunch of idiots.

Edited by dirtydirty10984, 05 March 2012 - 09:15 AM.

[vel]

dirtydirty10984, on 05 March 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

thank you! finally someone with some sense. i see no reason to make excuses for the Saints. or saying they arent the only ones. which its probably true but they deserve it for having a paper trail like a bunch of idiots.

If they aren't the only ones, why don't they spew some names? Lol I have wondered this.

I know the Falcons, Panthers, and Bucs aren't one of those teams. I can guess the Ravens solely by the way Ray Lewis plays. When the crack down on helmet to helmet hits came, he made sure he was tackling correctly (prime example: devastating hit on Dustin Keller that led to a win). I can guess the Browns, Bengals. Don't know about Steelers fully. I'll guess Pats, Dolphins, Bills, Giants, Eagles, Redskins (now), all of the NFCW, Bears, Pack, Vikes, AFCS, AFCW. The only ones I would really question to the level close to the Saints would be the Jets, Cowboys (just because he is Rex's brother), Steelers (unintentionally with Harrison but lessened by the way Polamalu plays hard but clean), and Lions.

I will say defenses have targets but not to the intent of injury. Some guys will get hit harder than others (not that you are hitting anybody soft), but not maliciously. We had something like that in high school, certain big play threats that you really wanted to lay a good, clean lick on so they thought about it during the game. I wouldn't call that a bounty, but I think that's kind of what Roddy is saying. They make a point to try and hit Roddy real good whenever they can, but it never fazes him. All top QBs have that on them as well, but again, not malicious intent. Our DC when I played always said "Make sure he feels you the next the play when you get to him". But the keyword was "next play".

But whatever. Rome is falling, I will just enjoy the spectacle.

[pzummo]

Do a search for New Orleans Saints cheap hits or dirty and you will find a ton of players calling them out in various articles over the past few years. Freeman complained that they went for his knee when he was going out of bounds. Adrian Peterson complained about them being dirty. Steve Smith got in a fight with Roman Harper for a cheap shot. The Bucs complained about them being dirty players.

If you are only looking at Atlanta vs Saints games, you are going to miss a large number of cheap shots. You have to remember, it can't be completely blatant because the fine would exceed the reward. The hits are not necessarily illegal hits, they are just targetting a little lower and/or higher when the opportunity presents itself. It's not illegal to drive through a guy's knee in many instances, but it's still a cheap shot when you are taught to wrap up through the midsection.

[vel]

pzummo, on 05 March 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Do a search for New Orleans Saints cheap hits or dirty and you will find a ton of players calling them out in various articles over the past few years. Freeman complained that they went for his knee when he was going out of bounds. Adrian Peterson complained about them being dirty. Steve Smith got in a fight with Roman Harper for a cheap shot. The Bucs complained about them being dirty players.

If you are only looking at Atlanta vs Saints games, you are going to miss a large number of cheap shots. You have to remember, it can't be completely blatant because the fine would exceed the reward. The hits are not necessarily illegal hits, they are just targetting a little lower and/or higher when the opportunity presents itself. It's not illegal to drive through a guy's knee in many instances, but it's still a cheap shot when you are taught to wrap up through the midsection.

This^

Hitting Kelly where Jenkins hit him was where you are taught to hit, right at the belly button. It was just in the back of Kelly. But if he went unecessarily low (back of knees) or high, then I would agree with using this hit. But it wasn't a bad it. It was a hard hit to jar the ball loose and in textbook location.

[Bullitt]

I don't see how anyone can defend the way they were repeatedly going after AP's ankle.  It was blatantly obvious. I don't care about hard hits, playing to a little after the whistle, etc. but when you have a team plan/goal to go after someone's injury as egregiously as that, I have a problem with that.  Just play football.

[Master Exploder]

Bullitt, on 05 March 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

I don't see how anyone can defend the way they were repeatedly going after AP's ankle.  It was blatantly obvious. I don't care about hard hits, playing to a little after the whistle, etc. but when you have a team plan/goal to go after someone's injury as egregiously as that, I have a problem with that.  Just play football.

Everybody does this at every level of football. It's not going to change. However, paying players to do this is extremely wrong and that is where the issue is.

[Falcons 'til Death]

Since when does a opinion of a talking-head in the media has any sway what the commish will do when handing out disciplinary actions? This guy is only doing his job by generating interest for his employer.

I don't think Goodell gives a rat's arse what he thinks.

[Masbinacci]

vel, on 05 March 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

Yea, I agree. I am just saying many of the hits weren't illegal hits, which is what Golic is pointing out.

Every talk person? Where are those quotes? And what Lofton hit are you talking about? The one on Colston? That was a clean hit I agree on that, he hit Colston like Gooddell wanted from what I thought but clearly we are wrong:



But what rule did Jenkins break hitting Kelly? Lofton hit a defenseless player "in the head". I will agree that was a little love for New Orleans. But, although Kelly was defenseless, Jenkins hit him in the back. Should he have gone low and the back of his knees? That would have been dirty. Should he have went high and risk a concussion? That's all I am arguing. There was no right way to hit Kelly for you in this instance. I am not siding with the Saints, just the hit in general is not a good example in my opinion. That's my opinion and I guess we will just disagree.

hitting a player in the back leading with your helmet is ok??? come on man I like big hits and all. but this hit was over the top. you tell me if this was your kid playing you wouldn't be all over this one? he could have gone and wrapped up and took him down. there is no need in taking your helmet into someones back while your going full force.

[Masbinacci]

Master Exploder, on 05 March 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

Everybody does this at every level of football. It's not going to change. However, paying players to do this is extremely wrong and that is where the issue is.

agreed. I am ok with big hits. I do not like the illegal hits and I hate to see when a player is injured. I really have no words for players getting paid big time to hurt other players. this is wrong, down right wrong.

but hey do you think they will cut Vilma now? because they don't have enough money. I wonder who would pick him up. I would die out laughing if the falcons did.

[Master Exploder]

Fibonacci, on 05 March 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

agreed. I am ok with big hits. I do not like the illegal hits and I hate to see when a player is injured. I really have no words for players getting paid big time to hurt other players. this is wrong, down right wrong.

but hey do you think they will cut Vilma now? because they don't have enough money. I wonder who would pick him up. I would die out laughing if the falcons did.

Vilma will probably be the most penalized player from this whole ordeal. I doubt anybody touches him until he gets his suspension.

[Masbinacci]

Master Exploder, on 05 March 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

Vilma will probably be the most penalized player from this whole ordeal. I doubt anybody touches him until he gets his suspension.

I bet he would end up going cheap as well. and would be a player I would love to have.

[Master Exploder]

Fibonacci, on 05 March 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

I bet he would end up going cheap as well. and would be a player I would love to have.

Eh, I don't mind it. I don't think our FO will touch any player from that organization that may be facing a suspension.

[Bullitt]

Master Exploder, on 05 March 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

Everybody does this at every level of football. It's not going to change. However, paying players to do this is extremely wrong and that is where the issue is.

I don't think that every team does this any where near the extent that the aints were doing it.  AP is no wuss and knows what to expect and he got extremely upset at the way the aints were diving at his ankle every play.