83 replies to this topic

[isproab]

Mr. Right, on 15 February 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

Yes salary caps rise leading to higher salaries.  But we can always adjust for inflation or whatever index is used to calculate the rise.  The bottom line is, Ryan is highly dependent on the players around him to perform in order to succeed.  If our o-line gives up a little pressure, he gets happy feet.  If our defense does not step it up, he can't win a playoff game.  If our running back does not get over 100 yards, his winning rate drops to near 0.  Based on how much he relies on the team, he needs to take pay cut so that we can bring in better players to support him.  He doesn't improve the play of the players around him.  If he did, our WRs wouldn't drop balls as much as he can get them to focus during the game.  He can't avoid pressure because he's not mobile, so we need to spend more on offensive linemen.

You can't always adjust for inflaction b/c there is a floor as well.  You have to spend a certain amount of money.  Sorry, but football is a team sport.  No QB can win without players around them.  Sure, a few teams have done it without a big time runner.  Rams had Faulk, so despited the ability to throw it all over, they had a true everydown, multi-threat guy behind the QB.  Packers could not run the ball in 2010, but they did play defense that year.  Saints won as well by throwing it.  No they were not a big running team, but Bush was always a concern.  You can also see that both those teams faild to get back b/c the "lightning in a bottle" got away.

Again, football is a team sport.  Everybody has help.  What did it get Brady and the Patroits this year.  Vick can create on his own and he has never gotten there.

Edited by isproab, 15 February 2012 - 09:21 AM.

[vel]

Quote

The bottom line is, Ryan is highly dependent on the players around him to perform in order to succeed.

Who isn't? If Gronk didn't turn into a beast, the Pats don't sniff the SB. If Graham and Sproles weren't dominating players, Brees doesn't break the record. If Manningham doesn't make that catch, Eli is probably 1-1 in the Super Bowl. David Tyree drops it and Eli is 0-2. See how stupid that sounds when you read your statement by itself?

If our o-line gives up a little pressure, he gets happy feet.

Who wouldn't behind that OLine? Let him get a real OLine and he will be fine.

If our defense does not step it up, he can't win a playoff game.

So if the defense allows 48 points, Ryan should be able to score 49 right? HeIl, just read the statement. No team wins playoff games if the defense doesn't step up. The Pats lose if Sterling Moore doesn't knock the ball out of Evans hands at the very last second and they had the 32nd ranked defense. Yes, our defense played well against the Giants, but when your OC doesn't believe he can outscheme the other team, Ryan can't overcome that no matter how hard he tried.

If our running back does not get over 100 yards, his winning rate drops to near 0.

Wrong. We are undefeated when Ryan has a rating above 100. That's 20+ games too before you go and say it's not many times. When Ryan gets going, we are literally unstoppable. The problem is the OC wanted to get his RB going before his QB. Conflicting interests.

Based on how much he relies on the team, he needs to take pay cut so that we can bring in better players to support him.

He will more than likely restructure his contract because that's the kind of guy he is. This is a team sport, everybody relies on the team. Without Ryan, the Falcons aren't halfway as successful as they have been. Like somebody said, without Ryan, we are Cleveland or Buffalo. Replace Ryan with Henne and think about the results 4 years later. It would be a lot worse and justifiably so.

He doesn't improve the play of the players around him. If he did, our WRs wouldn't drop balls as much as he can get them to focus during the game.

If that's the rationale, then you are wrong because Roddy had the best hands in 2010 with the same QB you are blaming for the drops in 2011. How does the WRs dropping the balls get blamed on Ryan? I guess the Packers drops in the playoffs are all Rodgers' fault and Welker's drop is actually Brady's fault.

This whole "certain players can play wherever" is not true. It's all out opinion. Babin has 20+ sacks the last 2 years, he can't do that anywhere. Nnamdi shut down every WR before Revis and got to Philly and was beat every which way. Put Tony G on the Jags and he doesn't get 800 yards last year because their WRs scared nobody so they could easily triple cover Tony G. And no Abe would not get the same numbers on a worse line, look at 09: 5.5 sacks. What happened? It was just a down year I guess huh? No, he was getting pressure but the ball was out because the secondary was struggling. You can put Abe on the best DLine but if the secondary is trash, it's impossible to get there because the WRs will be open in a couple of seconds. But he doesn't depend on the rest of the defense, he's just a one man wrecking crew.

A lot of these players are rare players: Calvin Johnson, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning. Of course everybody wants one of those guys. Are you going to get one? Maybe not, so you have to build a team full of really good guys. Julio is the closest thing to one of those kind of players, hence going to get him when the opportunity arose. Nobody on the Giants or Steelers is that kind of player, that if the team sucks they will still be dominant, they sure have a few SBs between them recently.

It's pretty obvious you want Vick back. A player that was mobile and could single handedly take over a game. But he wasn't a winner and didn't make the players around him better. Roddy sucked with Vick. So did Jenkins. They had the worst drops of their careers with Vick so I guess he is in the same boat with Ryan in that section right? Vick was never going to be the QB he is in Philly if he stayed here. He still can't read defenses, is injury prone now, and still inaccurate and won't drive the field. He's nothing more than a faster McNabb in that system.

[Falcon Man]

Mr. Right, on 12 February 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

While...

[samtown7]

Transplants in Atlanta will not be happy until the Falcons team have a 0-16 record by running off the best players we have.

If yall run him off I hope he comes back and beats the #### out of the Falcons and wins 5 SB!

Edited by samtown7, 15 February 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[Magic Man]

Ahh, more people playing the "It's Matt's Fault" game.  What if this actually is a team sport and breakdowns across the board led to our demise in the playoffs this year, as opposed to placing all the blame on one guy.  When we talk about Matt's win percentage, it's a team game...when we talk about playoff record, that albatross is hung squarely around Matt's neck...come on Ryan haters, it doesn't go both ways.

[KGrillz]

Ryan is good. He just needs to be able to manage the pocket better. A QB will not always get a clean pocket sometimes he needs to scramble a little to see if things open up down field kind of how Eli and Rodgers do. Falcons need to put a good OL in front of him. If he can't perform having a good OL then Ryan needs to be reevaluated.

[York]

You put good read on something that you wrote. You're condescending, arrogant, stupid, or all three...leaning towards the latter in this case after reading half a paragraph.

[Miller2Rison]

Falcan Moore, on 15 February 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

You put good read on something that you wrote. You're condescending, arrogant, stupid, or all three...leaning towards the latter in this case after reading half a paragraph.

That's a big NO NO in the publishing industry, you never write a book and tell the publisher how good it is, if u do that they think you are full of sh*t and that you are not a good writer. Mr Right, you are now a good writer and that was not a good read. Publication denied.

Falcan Moore, on 15 February 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

You put good read on something that you wrote. You're condescending, arrogant, stupid, or all three...leaning towards the latter in this case after reading half a paragraph.

That's a big NO NO in the publishing industry, you never write a book and tell the publisher how good it is, if u do that they think you are full of sh*t and that you are not a good writer. Mr Right, you are now a good writer and that was not a good read. Publication denied.

[Mr. Right]

isproab, on 15 February 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

You can't always adjust for inflaction b/c there is a floor as well.  You have to spend a certain amount of money.  Sorry, but football is a team sport.  No QB can win without players around them.  Sure, a few teams have done it without a big time runner.  Rams had Faulk, so despited the ability to throw it all over, they had a true everydown, multi-threat guy behind the QB.  Packers could not run the ball in 2010, but they did play defense that year.  Saints won as well by throwing it.  No they were not a big running team, but Bush was always a concern.  You can also see that both those teams faild to get back b/c the "lightning in a bottle" got away.

Again, football is a team sport.  Everybody has help.  What did it get Brady and the Patroits this year.  Vick can create on his own and he has never gotten there.

Sure no QB can win without the players around him, but some QBs depend on his teammates more than others.  Matt Ryan depends on his WRs, TE, OL, defense, and running game.  Most other QBs only depend on 2 or 3 of the above and generally their WR and OL.  That means that Matt Ryan should be paid much less than the other QBs who bring more to the table.

The point I'm making is, if you depend on your teammates for you to be successful, then your salary should reflect how much you depend on the rest of the team.   Your salary should also depend on how much you bring to the team.

You give John Abraham a little bit of inside pressure, and he'll get double digit sacks.  You give Ray Edwards a little bit of inside pressure, and he'd get less than 6.  Shouldn't you pay Edwards less and Abraham more?

Edited by Mr. Right, 24 February 2012 - 03:27 PM.

[kevykev21]

Mr. Right, on 24 February 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

You're Matt Ryan's bytch.  He owns you and most of the space in that small dome of yours.

[atljbo]

Mr. Right, on 24 February 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Sure no QB can win without the players around him, but some QBs depend on his teammates more than others.  Matt Ryan depends on his WRs, TE, OL, defense, and running game.  Most other QBs only depend on 2 or 3 of the above and generally their WR and OL.  That means that Matt Ryan should be paid much less than the other QBs who bring more to the table.

The point I'm making is, if you depend on your teammates for you to be successful, then your salary should reflect how much you depend on the rest of the team.   Your salary should also depend on how much you bring to the team.

You give John Abraham a little bit of inside pressure, and he'll get double digit sacks.  You give Ray Edwards a little bit of inside pressure, and he'd get less than 6.  Shouldn't you pay Edwards less and Abraham more?

This is just dumb... We all know Aaron Rodgers is a top QB... He had a awsome season... The Defense was the difference ... A QB need Offensive weapons and a O-Line.... Teams that make it deep in the playoffs need a good Defense also... So the QB needs a good Defense also..

You dont have to like Matt Ryan.. I get it... But this is just getting stupid now...

When the saints won a championship their D led the league in turnovers and was able to run the ball... Along with his WR weapons and Oline....When the Colts won a championship the was running the ball great... Their D stepped up big time and played great... To go along with the Oline and WR's that Peyton Manning had.... When Brady won his chamionship.. They had a great O-line, great running game, Great Defense.... At the end of the year and playoffs every thing clicked with the Giants when that run game improved and that D-Line got healthy... Eli is a great QB but he have weapons, The best D-Line in the league, A decent O-Line, a really good run game....



My point is stop with all this Matt Ryan need everything.... Dude.. To make that run... Every QB need mostly everything clicking with a little Luck....

Matt Ryan needs to contiue to improve.. No doubt.... But stop it with all that ... Every QB needs things around him to make those big runs.... Brady is the only one that ive seen do alot with the least.... And that system gets alot out of that limited talent... Gets the most out of them (goes back to great coaching getting the most out of what they have)

[phattywankenobi]

Mr. Right, on 24 February 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Sure no QB can win without the players around him, but some QBs depend on his teammates more than others.  Matt Ryan depends on his WRs, TE, OL, defense, and running game.  Most other QBs only depend on 2 or 3 of the above and generally their WR and OL.  That means that Matt Ryan should be paid much less than the other QBs who bring more to the table.

The point I'm making is, if you depend on your teammates for you to be successful, then your salary should reflect how much you depend on the rest of the team.   Your salary should also depend on how much you bring to the team.

You give John Abraham a little bit of inside pressure, and he'll get double digit sacks.  You give Ray Edwards a little bit of inside pressure, and he'd get less than 6.  Shouldn't you pay Edwards less and Abraham more?

Nothing says attention whoring like bumping your own thread after it has been inactive for a week.

[Mr. Right]

kevykev21, on 24 February 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

You're Matt Ryan's bytch.  He owns you and most of the space in that small dome of yours.

Sigh...Wouldn't it be nice if Ryan starts owning the Superdome as opposed to my dome?  Or maybe own the Georgia Dome when we had home field advantage to the Superbowl?

phattywankenobi, on 24 February 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Nothing says attention whoring like bumping your own thread after it has been inactive for a week.

Please, if I wanted attention, I could have started 10 more threads.

atljbo, on 24 February 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

This is just dumb... We all know Aaron Rodgers is a top QB... He had a awsome season... The Defense was the difference ... A QB need Offensive weapons and a O-Line.... Teams that make it deep in the playoffs need a good Defense also... So the QB needs a good Defense also..

You dont have to like Matt Ryan.. I get it... But this is just getting stupid now...

When the saints won a championship their D led the league in turnovers and was able to run the ball... Along with his WR weapons and Oline....When the Colts won a championship the was running the ball great... Their D stepped up big time and played great... To go along with the Oline and WR's that Peyton Manning had.... When Brady won his chamionship.. They had a great O-line, great running game, Great Defense.... At the end of the year and playoffs every thing clicked with the Giants when that run game improved and that D-Line got healthy... Eli is a great QB but he have weapons, The best D-Line in the league, A decent O-Line, a really good run game....



My point is stop with all this Matt Ryan need everything.... Dude.. To make that run... Every QB need mostly everything clicking with a little Luck....

Matt Ryan needs to contiue to improve.. No doubt.... But stop it with all that ... Every QB needs things around him to make those big runs.... Brady is the only one that ive seen do alot with the least.... And that system gets alot out of that limited talent... Gets the most out of them (goes back to great coaching getting the most out of what they have)

So you're saying the teams that win are the teams that click right before the playoffs?  What makes a team click right before playoffs?  Luck?  We've had 3 chances in the last 4 years and we still couldn't click?  Whatever that thing is, well, it sure doesn't look like we're in control of it because we haven't had it and we don't know how to get it.

But what we can control, is player management and the distribution of resources (i.e. money, draft picks, etc...) to build a team that can capitalize on opportunities.  And that means adding talent to our roster to areas of need, spending our money wisely, and making sure the players who aren't playmakers and can't perform during the playoffs, like Ryan, don't hog all our resources.

Edited by Mr. Right, 24 February 2012 - 08:13 PM.

[mrobinson3803]

Mr. Right, on 15 February 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

I've shown in another thread that Matt Ryan is terrible in the last 2 minutes in any half.  It's hard to attribute the comebacks to his play.  Michael Turner has been a greater catalyst for this stat.

seriously dude?



I couldnt help but notice crisp houston got beat to put them up by 1. Has he really learned to turn his head in Detroit

Edited by mrobinson3803, 25 February 2012 - 01:08 AM.

[Nono]

All I have to say is protect Ryan better and you would see a much improved QB

[big_D]

Nono, on 25 February 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

All I have to say is protect Ryan better and you would see a much improved QB

               + one

[madman88]

I really dnt understand.. if we acted lke jacksonville and didnt ut any weapons arOKund him then EVERYONE would be bitc**** about not having talent.. but he has talent everywhere and now it matt ryan needs talent to be good blah blah... Payton had a HOF RB and HOF WR coming into the league..

if you dnt like ryan thats fine, thats your oinion but dnt falsify wat your sayng to try n make him look bad... Lets be real guys dang.. its a team game and we lost as a team... all i kno is ryan has had more sucess then brees and manning first few yrs with FAR less talent on the o-line....

[big_D]

Falcon Man, on 15 February 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

I wish I could read lips. What do you think the blah blah blah blond is really trying to say?

Edited by bob_d, 25 February 2012 - 09:02 AM.

[madman88]

Mr. Right, on 24 February 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Sure no QB can win without the players around him, but some QBs depend on his teammates more than others.  Matt Ryan depends on his WRs, TE, OL, defense, and running game.  Most other QBs only depend on 2 or 3 of the above and generally their WR and OL.  That means that Matt Ryan should be paid much less than the other QBs who bring more to the table.

The point I'm making is, if you depend on your teammates for you to be successful, then your salary should reflect how much you depend on the rest of the team.   Your salary should also depend on how much you bring to the team.

You give John Abraham a little bit of inside pressure, and he'll get double digit sacks.  You give Ray Edwards a little bit of inside pressure, and he'd get less than 6.  Shouldn't you pay Edwards less and Abraham more?

its a team game.. every QB depends on the o-line, just like the o-line depends on the QB to get the ball out..

Qb depends on the WR to catch the ball, just like the WR depends on the QB to throw it in the right spot...

RB depends on the QB to run at the right kind of defensive fronts if in hurry up.. QB depends on RB to stay on schedule and keep the chains moving..

I can go on and on about players depending on eachother.. thats wat a team does.. so can yall stop with who depends on who... Everybody does... smh

[WhenFalconsWin]

FalconsManhood, on 12 February 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

100% agree. Ryan is a game manager and can take us to a superbowl if only he was paid for his talent level and we could get an elite d-fense and offensive line like the 49ers, ravens, giants have.

We have seen that Ryan has rode the success of Turner over the last 4 years and when we tried to shift the offense to a more passer friendly system Ryan could not take us to the next level.

I like Ryan and want him to be  our QB but let's not kid ourselves, he is not an elite QB and is grossly overpaid. hopefully we can bring him back ala Alex Smith at a fair salary and build a good defense capable of stopping Brees, Newton and Freeman.

Stopping Newton and Freeman?...ROTFLMAO